Risks of the Swine Flu Vaccine (Experimental adjuvant squalene implicated in autoimmune disorders)

http://www.thenewamerican.com ^ | Thursday, 03 September 2009 | Alex Newman

[CottShop]

you complained about peopel callign you crazy- but perhaps it’s because you say silly stuff like how I’m suppsoed to be an ‘employee’ or rep? The side effects again, are very rare compared to the side effects from the flu-

Zicam was pulled from the market because of the fact that there were isolated cases of peopel losign hteir sense of smell, and people freaked out about it- but the FACT is that the common cold also causes a loss of smell- but that didn’t matter- people just got all worried about it, and forced the removal of it despite never proving it wasn’t unfact hte colds that caused rthe loss of smell- All I was pointing out was to use caution when evaluating something and weigh th4e risks vs benifits, as well as look at the stats for BOTH takign the shots vs not takign them- common sense is all- but yeah- call me a rep if you want- I don’t wonder now why folks reacted to your previous posts on the issue the way they did if that’s your attitude abotu hte whole issue-

[netmilsmom]

Well, as I remember, I got the same arguments from the last poster who dismissed those of us who got sick from a flu shot.

Perhaps this was Deja Vu.

[CottShop]

[[Well, as I remember, I got the same arguments from the last poster who dismissed those of us who got sick from a flu shot.]]

I guess I missed that- I certainlywasn’t dismissing you- I can certai ly understand your feelings o nthe issue- but I also think I’ve presented reasonable examples as well-, and think it’s important that we concider the facts when makign a decision one way or the other. It’s kind of like flying- Yes, there are accidents, but hte vast majority of flights are very safe, but it’s easy to become fearful hearing ohrror stories— I certainly understandthat- I have a relative that refuses to fly, but has no problem driving a car, which statistically is much less safe- I don’t understand their fear, but don’t wish to force them to change hteirm ind either- I respect their decision- as I mentioned in an above post, everything is relative- we just need a little perspective sometimes

[kara2008]

I don't think that's nuts at all b/c the same thing happened to me. I got my first and only flu shot at work several years ago. Within 48 hours I got the worse flu of my entire life! It also must have totally screwed up my immune system b/c I came down with one illness after another for the next three or four months which was very odd because I'd been in excellent health before getting the shot. Needless to say, I will not take the H1N1 vaccine.

[netmilsmom]

Don’t say it too loud!

People will tell you NO way. It’s funny how for the last few years I have said this on FR and in every thread two or three people come in saying the same thing.

[netmilsmom]

Sorry, I don’t think you understand.
I said, my family won’t get flu shots.

Personally, I don’t care what you do.

But “reasonable arguments” are not reasonable to those of us who have had adverse reactions. You’re calling this “fear” and I’m telling you it’s like any other drug. There are contraindications in any medication. When you get one, you no longer use that drug.

The people who come into these threads have tried flu shots and had adverse reactions. As a Medical Office Manager, if I got a call from a patient stating an adverse reaction to a med, how stupid would it be to say, “Continue taking it.”

That’s what you are doing.

[mysterio]

So what are the risks of the swine flu vaccines? It depends on who you ask.

Yes, it depends on whether you ask a scientist who has studied vaccines and immunology, or if you ask a foaming at the mouth blogger intent on spreading hysterical hyperbole.

The risks of the injected vaccine is GBS at the rate of one case per million doses. There is also the risk of an allergic reaction if you happen to be allergic to albumen (egg white.) It's not recommended that people with such an allergy get the injected vaccine.

From what I've seen in reports, squalene will not be included in all doses of the vaccine. I saw a report yesterday that there are two batches, one in ten dose vials and one in single vials. One of them does not contain it. If you're concerned about that, you can ask for a dose without it.

If you're an anti-vaccine zealot, you also run the risk of having someone post on all your threads that the flu kills 34,000 plus and causes the hospitalization of 200,000 plus in the United States alone. So the benefits of getting vaccinated far outweigh the risks.

The H1N1 is being tested right now and has been for a while. It will be released in mid October.

My advice? If you are really that scared of it, don't get it. I sincerely doubt the stormtroopers are goign to kick in your door and force you to get vaccinated, regardless of what you read on the internet. Also, there's no multi-national corporate conspiracy plotting around a large round oak table in Europe with the single minded goal of giving you GBS for their own fun and profit.

On the other hand, if you want some level of protection against the flu, get the shot.

Much of the mortality of this flu hinges on whether it causes cytokine storms, a serious immune overreaction in a localized area like the lungs that results from certain types of antigens. This is why the 1918 flu killed so many with healthy immune systems. It is still unclear whether prevailing strains of H1N1 cause cytokine storms.

Anyway, good luck and happy blogging.

[CottShop]

[[But “reasonable arguments” are not reasonable to those of us who have had adverse reactions.]]

No that’s not what I said- I specifically said those hwo have had bad reactiosn should not take the shot- I said that several times infact- however, I am also pointign out that people, myself included in past times, tend to look at isolated cases- which can be extreme- no doubt- and might conclude that it’s very risky when the facts are that for the mass majority of peopel it’s very safe- you’re chance of gettign struck by lightening is greater than having a bad reaction- and we can’t let fear keep us indoors everytime there’s a storm forcast- BUT for those hwo have had bad reactions, there is an obvious increased risk that yes, you should avoid

[[There are contraindications in any medication. When you get one, you no longer use that drug.]]

Which is what I’ve said right along- but let’s keep this in perspective- for the majority of people, there aren’t reactions, or very mild reactions which are easily tolorated compared with what the flu can do.

[[That’s what you are doing]]

NO Ma’am- don’t put words in my mouth- you’ve missed my point- I have searched the swine flu quite a bit, and it’;s just incredible the scare monguering that goes on based on what? Isolated cases of bad reactions? When these isolated cases are compared to the amount of help the shots provide for the mass majority, the scare tactics end up hurting people who would have been helped had they not been scared off because soem peopel have adverse reactions- I’m NOT saying that is what you are tryign to do- but I’ve seen several of these threads pop up recently, and I’m willing to bet that a lot of peopel wil lbe influenced and iwll be putting htemselves at risk of hte flu unecessarily because htei mpression is left that it’s a case of russian ruelette if you get hte lfue shot- but the facts don’t bear this out for hte majority of people

Now, this new flu vaccine may be a different story as not much is known yet, and I’m certainly NOT statign that it’s safe- as you mentioend, most meds have a small risk of complications- I had to take anti-cancer drugs which had a ‘low risk of lung infections’ and guess what? I kept getting them- ended up in hospital 3 times fightign to breathe- and hwen I told my doctor about it, he just looked incredulous, and insinuated that he ‘doubted I was getting lung infections as the risk was very low’ and blamed it on my asthma- I’ve had asthma for all my life, and htese infectiosn were much more than asthma- which I’ve NEVER had a fever with, nor spit up gunk like I experienced when I ended up in hospital, AND the antibiotics I was given at hte time cleared the problems up- AFTER coming off the cancer drugs, I have not had another infection-

Let me be clear here- IF you have had reactions, and they were severe- I say stay away fro mthe flu shot- can’t stress that enough, as these reactions could be life threatening- However, for htose that are healthy, and have no had reactions, or had just mild reactions, I beleive the danger from the swine flu far outwiegh the risk of a reaction fro m the shot.

There was another thread here on FR which basically was sayign that peopel should avoid the flu shot because soem people developped Guillian Barre (sp?) after getting the shots- BUT upon further investigation, it was foudn that peopel were LESS likely to get the condition after gettign hte shot- it actually REDUCED the risk- but. hte thread made it look like the shot was far too risky to take-

Let’s just look objectively, and make decisiosn hen- IF people are scared off from the shot unduly, then this virus IS goign to spread much farhter, faster, and more virulently, putting young, old, and people with health problems at greater risk- Worldwide, 200,000 to 500,000 peopel die from the regular flu each year, and htis swine flu could end up killing millions unless we do what we can to prevent it- for htose who CAN take the shot without problems, it wil lhelp slow the virus down- and yes, there WILL be soem that develop problems- but compared to how many people will survive, and not have complications due ot hte flu- I think it’s so far looking ok to take hte shots. That’s all I’m saying at this point- but watch the news- see if the risks fro mthe shot rise i nthe near future,- and act accordingly- So please don’t misrepresent what I’m sayign on the issue

[CottShop]

[[The risks of the injected vaccine is GBS at the rate of one case per million doses.]]

Precisely- Which is hte points I was trying to bring up- we need to keep things in perspective.

I also had a pituitary tumor which caused Acromegally (same hting Andre the Giant had- only mine happened after the growthplates closed, so didn’t get giantism- just got hte negative effects like enlarged soft tissue organs like heart, intestines etc)- and the ‘risk’ of developping acromegally from pit tumor was 1 in 6 million- Yep- I was the ‘lucky’ #1- Can bad thigns happen given huge odds agaisnt it? Sure- but like flying- MOST peopel will never have problems- ever- BUT when peopel start lumping al lthe isolated cases together, it looks much worse than it actually is statistics-wise

Vitimin and herbal companies are famous for using htis practice of anectdotal evidence to bolster sales- they end up scarign people into thinking that if they don’t take their product, they wil lend up with problems that htey can’t even pronounce or have even heard of- and htese companies iwll use tactics like saying “Stuff your doctor doesn’t want you to know” or “Informaiton the govenrment is keeping from you” Then they’ll trot out all manner of ‘testimonials’ from peopel that make claism like “Vitimin B cured my diabetese” or somehtign similar- and the fact is that htere are so many variables in life, there is NO WAY they can know IF the vitimin was the cure, or of they went into remission naturally, or if some unconscious lifestyle change helped etc etc etc-

I also cringe hwen I see peopel advocating that gettign stuff liek Vitimin D is ‘all that you need to protect you from any flu” which is a crock-

you seem to be downplaying hte fact that peopel mention how many people are killed by the flu each year? I happen to think it’s a pretty powerful argument for takign hte shot- because what would htose numbers be IF there were ifnact no shots being given out? Much higher I’m betting- of htose 34,000 that do die- how many were not given shots? But you’re right- again, there’s lots of variables which we just don’t know, howver, I think there’s enough statisdtical evidence to suggest a strong correlatio nbetween protection and geting hte shots, and strong evidence showign not getting hte shot puts you at an unecessary higher risk of dying- especially with htis flu as the lungs that were autopsied showed massive damage (which incidently also happens in peopel who die fro mthe bird flu)

Anyways- long story short- like oyu say- in hte end- if peopel are scared of hte shot- or alergic- don’t get it- but PLEASE DO try to keep from spreadign hte flu IF you end up getting it as htis is goign to be a very deadly flu- especially to people with health conditions

[CottShop]

[[Don’t say it too loud!

People will tell you NO way.]]

NOONE is sayign that Netmil- please don;’t infer that we are- thanks

[mysterio]

34,000 that do die- how many were not given shots?

It's hard to say for sure. I think the flu shot gives about 70 to 80 percent protection in adult-aged patients, and that number goes down as you get older (or if you are a very young child).

It all boils down to your risk / benefit ratio. But I will admit, I'm angry when I'm trying to do a simple search for components of the vaccine and I have to wade through 10 google pages of the SAME hysterical internet blog written by a non-scientist. I mean, that's simply ridiculous. Give people the facts, not uninformed hyperbole.

[netmilsmom]

When you point out ANYWHERE that I said no one should get a flu shot, we’ll talk.

You are the poster who seems to be campaigning for them.
Everyone here has said ‘I’ won’t get one. Not YOU shouldn’t.

[steve86]

I get the seasonal influenza vaccine every year and never have a reaction (guess I’m a lucky one), but would not go near the swine flu shot at this stage of the game and maybe ever. Too many unanswered questions and unknowns, many pointed out in this thread. But it sounds as though we 50+s are at the end of the line behind other age groups anyway so we might never get the chance.

[CottShop]

[[When you point out ANYWHERE that I said no one should get a flu shot, we’ll talk.]]

NetNill- you are continuing to misrepresent what I’ve been saying- I specifically said I was NOT accusign YOU of doign this- again- please do NOT say I said any such thing especially when I specifically mentioned I was NOT sayign you were doign htis- it seems Netnil that you are wilfully misrepresentign what I am saying for what? To be wilfully aggreived?

[[You are the poster who seems to be campaigning for them.]]

Alright- this has gone on long enough- this is a LIE- it’s apparent you aren’t goign to be hgonest about anything- I explained my points, WHY I was makign my points, and pointing out that it was because of previous threads, NOT because of htis particular thread- IF you’re goign to keep being dishonest, and misrepresentign what I’ve been saying- then I guess there’s nothign more to discuss- can’t argue points with someone who intentionally misrepresents al lthe time- I tried bringign up points to concider- but you keep twistign what I’m satying and WHY I’m saying it- So yeah- continue being offended when there is absolutely NO reason for you to be offended- Continue tryign ot make a case hwere none exists- whatever! I’m done

[CottShop]

[[Everyone here has said ‘I’ won’t get one. Not YOU shouldn’t.]]

Sigh- I NEVER said everyone here was implying everyoen shoudl stay away fro mthe shot- again- another blatant misrperesentation of the poitns I was making- Cripes- whatever!

[netmilsmom]

Then why did you come onto this thread where people were stating that ‘I’ won’t get a flu shot?

What are you trying to do?

Nevermind, let others decide what you are doing.

[CottShop]

[[Then why did you come onto this thread where people were stating that ‘I’ won’t get a flu shot?]]

Because I think it’;s important to keep it all in perspective- present both sides- and because there has been an influx of htreads on FR i nthe past that have left false impressions, NOT that htis htread was doign that- BUT people coming on FR and readign previous threads and this one are left with 1/2 the story- and I beleive unduly so, which ‘could be’ dangerous IF people are persuaded to refrain from takign hte shot and putting others at risk by helpign to spread the flu- that is all- but you’ve mistated me on several occassions insinuating I’m ‘a rep of hte company’ and that ‘I’m calling you and others on THISD thread hysteria mongeuerers’ which is NOT what I was doign at all- it seems you are itnentionally looking to be offended, and even mistating whta I was saying to jusdtify the false offense. I have said several times now- thaty if you’re allergic, if your are scared of the shot (and I was NOT saying you or anyone else were unjustified, becausel iek you said ALL meds carry a risk) then don’t get hte shots- BUT PLEASE DO try to keep fro mspreadign hte flu as best you can- so again- you’ve itnentionalyl misrepresented what I was saying and WHY I was saying it.

This flu IS goign to be very serious- especially to peopel with compromised immune systems, the young, and the elderly, and I think it’s VERY important that poeple have as much info as possible- I can’t imagine why you’d have a problem with htat? And why you’d attemptto insdult me be insinuating I’m a lackey for hte pharmeceitical agengy? You’ve blown htigns WAY WAY out of proportion here- and caused me to have to explain, reexplain, and even reexplain- but apprently, your hell bent on beign offended, and on continuing to misrepresent my posts- so have at it- whatever- I think objective folsk will indeed see what is happening here-

[[What are you trying to do?]]

How many times am I goign to have to tell you? When will it sink in that the ONLY thing I’m tryign to do is present al lthe facts? I’ve NOT balked from presenting the facts that the shot CAN be harmful, nor have I said it;’s irrational for everyoen to abstain from getting it especially when they are allergic or have had complications to regular flu shots in hte past- but you have insinuated several times now that this is what I’m here for- this is blatantly false! I tried to keep it civil with you- but you’ve insisted on making a case out of misrepresentign what I;’m sayingh

[netmilsmom]

>>but apprently, your hell bent on beign offended,<<

Me?
And by the way, spellcheck is your friend.

[TeknoBeck]

A friend sent me this....from our gov't... FDA