Posted on 02/06/2009 9:15:57 AM PST by bassmaner
See, you guys have just misunderstood me. I’m not really a mullah who wants to stone pot smokers. I just live in a decent neighborhood and I want it to stay that way.
Yes. And that's what I call Amsterdam Libertarianism. It's the fear of making judgments on the behavior of others. And it leads to everything you just stated.
You are assuming that there won't ever come a day when the liberals will deem that one of your activities should be made illegal and thus render you one of the "criminals" that should be jailed forever.
I just get a kick out people who are so cavalier about stealing another person's liberty. All the while sure in the knowledge that they don't live in a glass house. Please swear and aver that you have never broken a law or violated a regulation. Or else please report to your nearest skyscraper prison to begin serving your life sentence for your crimes no matter how petty and minor they may have been.
That would mean that the Netherlands is permissive on this issue, wouldn't it?
The "Amsterdam Libertarianism" you describe fails because it co-exists with a culture that has sacrificed itself on the altar of "diversity" and "multiculturalism". Because the Dutch are so steeped in the belief that their culture is no better or worse than any other, they have allowed Islamic hordes into their midst that will soon render their famed permissiveness extinct.
This is happening not because of their libertarianism; rather, it is the Left that is the catalyst for their demise. There are true libertarians in Holland, however, that want to retain the traditional easy-going Dutch lifestyle, yet want to confront and defeat the Left and Islamists: check out this guy, who currently is being perse-, er prosecuted by Dutch leftists for "hate speech" against Muslims.
“It’s the fear of making judgments on the behavior of others. And it leads to everything you just stated.”
You have it absolutely backwards. They’ve abdicated making decisions for themselves, giving the decision-making right and obligation to the state.
Conservatism is about INDIVIDUAL rights and INDIVIDUAL responsibility.
So do you want to negotiate whether or not to have prisons? What are you offering in return?
No.
Haven't been to D.C. either.
That funny?
Relatively, compared to the more restrictive laws of its neighbors, a fact which refutes your assertion.
Well, it's funny in that you seem compelled to make pronouncements on things you know nothing about.
Actually, it's more pathetic than funny.
Prisons should be around for those who pose a threat to society. I guess what we disagree on is the definition of what poses a threat to society. I’m not if favor of life sentences for all crimes as you proposed a few posts ago. Your post reminded me of Les Miserables, you would make a wonderful Monsieur DeMasi. Your screen name is interesting, do you purport to be a religious person??? A follower of Christ???
I think our differences of opinion on the issue of drug legalization stem from the malleable nature of the word "libertarian." There are libertarians on the Left and on the Right, and it's important that we recognize that. I stand with the libertarians on the Right (such as Geert) who advocate individual liberty. But I can't (and won't) stand with the libertarians on the Left who champion a society of wholesale permissiveness. As I said before in a previous post, there are certain agents of destruction that I would want prohibited in my community. And as you can see by my jumping into this thread, I'm not afraid to defend my position.
I think there is far more that we agree on (than disagree) about libertarianism. But the word is like a hydra: it has many heads.
Javert/Monsieur DeMasi, must proofread before hitting post.
I’m love Jesus.
I don’t really remember Less Miserables.
I was talking hypothetical. In my hypothetical situation there wouldn’t be as many criminals. Naturally, if we lifted the ban, those in prison would be let free under certain circumstances. Those in prison for crimes against the bureaucracy might be let free too. I wasn’t talking about tax cheats and the like.
I'll be honest. I seek truth in all things. But it's a highly elusive thing to find. I've participated on this thread because "I'm compelled to make pronouncements" on issues and ideas that might lead me to truth. Or at least some vestigial form of it.
But there's more. I've also considered everything that others have said on this thread. And I've responded to much of it. It's these types of philosophical challenges I relish.
Actually, it's more pathetic than funny.
And that's more funny than pathetic.
Then we are on the same side.
You are mistaken if you think Europe practices anything that comes within the same galaxy as "libertarianism." And pot is not "legal," technically, in the Netherlands. Pot use in the Netherlands is lower than it is in the US; the vast majority of people in the coffee shops are tourists.
And that's more funny than pathetic.
Glad I could amuse you.
Sorry the formating is off, but pot and hard drug use in the Netherlands is HALF that of the USA.
Social Indicator Comparison Year USA Netherlands
Lifetime prevalence of marijuana use (ages 12+) 2001 36.9% 1 17.0% 2
Past month prevalence of marijuana use (ages 12+) 2001 5.4% 1 3.0% 2
Lifetime prevalence of heroin use (ages 12+) 2001 1.4% 1 0.4% 2
Incarceration Rate per 100,000 population 2002 701 3 100 4
Per capita spending on criminal justice system (in Euros) 1998 €379 5 €223 5
Homicide rate per 100,000 population Average 1999-2001 5.56 6 1.51 6
Cleaner table here:
http://drugwarfacts.org/cms/?q=node/67
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