Posted on 01/09/2009 8:28:39 PM PST by devere
It also says any alterations invalidate it.
Kind of hard to prove otherwise if no one gets to examine the document for alterations, isn't it.
People have done the best they can with the image(s), and have seen evidence of either alteration, or out and out creation of a false document.
The birth announcement was likely triggered by the filing of the (long form) BC. If the address on the long form BC is the same, and yet it proves to be false, then you have the grandparents and/or parents providing false information to create an appearance of something that was not the case.
Which is why release of a scanned image or a digital photo, isn't good enough to prove anything. You've got to have the paper, and BHO hasn't released the paper to anyone, not even Factcheck, they just got to hold "it" and take pictures (poorly). None of them are document experts either.
It's not a valid Certification of Live Birth if it is without a seal or a forged seal.
The Department of Health uses different variations of the State seal from year to year as part of their security measures to help pinpoint forgeries. Obama's has the wrong seal "stamped" on it. And that is just for starters...
And, that’s why the process has to be corrected.
***Sure, I agree with that.
But, you seem to want to get it “undone”
***Wrong, as shown above.
— that which has been done the same way, all along, in the past.
***Another classic fallacy used by you... when will it ever stop?
And — in addition — you want to get it undone,
***Wrong, just a restatement of something that’s wrong, like a troll dog returning to its vomit.
on the basis of no evidence
***Back to your vomit of NO evidence thing again. It was wrong before and it’s wrong now.
that any court has accepted as proof
***Moving the goal posts.
of any deficiency in the Constitutional qualifications.
***Still in process.
For what is going to happen in the future — well..., it’s sorta funny that you say that someone can’t make any kind of estimation
***I didn’t say that. That makes whatever follows a straw argument. I said you don’t know the future, so you can’t argue from it. You argue from it all the time. It’s a classic fallacy, and from what I can see it’s the ENTIRE BASIS of your approach. Doesn’t it bother you that the basis of your approach to this whole subject is a logical fallacy?
of what’s going to happen in the future — and yet — you’ll make pronouncements about what Obama is going to do
***Show us one or two.
in the future.
***Wrong.
It would seem that if you know what Obama is going to do in the future (according to many things I’ve heard posted)
***Well, here’s the end of your hypothetical because I don’t know what he’s going to do, I don’t know the future, so that’s that. When you argue against what other posters have said, you’re just trying to lump me in with them. Go and argue that point with them, since they made the point. Such an argument is fruitless because BOTH SIDES are proceeding from an argument of silence.
— then I can very easily say what’s going to happen with the Supreme Court, in the future,
***Well, since the setup of your hypothetical is toast, the conclusion is toast as well, but it’s interesting to glimpse how you formulate a logical argument. It’s plain for lurkers to see that you’re trying your darndest to set up a way to argue from the future for yourself.
based on their actions and also see what other courts are going to do based on their actions, too.
***Since you can’t know what someone is going to do, this is a crock statement. One of many from you, troll.
So, it would seem that for some,
***Nope. It would not seem.
it’s easy to say what Obama is going to do in the future
***Best of luck with that invalid argument from silence.
— but — one can’t say what the Supreme Court is going to do in the future.
***There’s a doosey. Why not throw in one of your alien abduction predictions right here to make it all seem so ... inevitable?
Well, I’ll say so — between now and the inauguration — nothing.
***Maybe if you sell that crystal ball you might be able to purchase a clue.
At the time of the inauguration, Obama will be sworn in.
***Ho hum, more crystal ball stuff.
After the inauguration, the Supreme Court will do nothing to remove Obama from office.
***An elaborate argument from silence, the silence of the future. The dog troll returns to its vomit.
So, if others have their say on what Obama is going to do in the future,
***Then take it up with those others.
I’ll have my say on what the Supreme Court is going to do in the future
***It’s obvious to all that you desperately want to stay on this line of invalid argumentation.
(and by plain common sense and observing what they’re already doing....) :-)
***Plain common sense... like that alien abduction stuff. OK. Got it.
It’s also strange how some post about why the Supreme Court isn’t doing anything, and it always seems to come out to some variation that they’re playing some sort of “chess game” with Obama and they’ve got a trap laid,
***I’ve posted that if it was a chess game, they played a poor move that yielded the center. So don’t bother arguing against it since I did not proffer such an argument.
or it’s that they’re following some arcane procedures to remove Obama from office when he gets in office. It’s all very strange thinking... :-)
***then argue those who think it
It never seems to cross the minds of some of these posters
***Does it cross your mind to actually address your arguments to the posters who actually post them? What was it you were saying about common sense again?
that the Supreme Court isn’t doing anything with these cases — because no one “has a case” to do anything with...
***Does it ever cross your mind that no one wants to touch this because they don’t want to cross Capone... er, I mean Obama, and risk riots in the streets?
That’s way too easy to figure
***Like that there rioting in the streets thing.
— so some have to look for something else to bolster their own lack of evidence.
***Yeah, right, Einstein. These guys sit around and say, “gee, we have a lack of evidence so let’s look for something to bolster it.”
And the fact that George Bush hasn’t ordered a prosecution
***The dog returns to this vomit now.
for violation of the Constitutional requirements, simply means (as I read it), that President George Bush simply hasn’t moved on the case yet.
***If someone says that, argue with them on it. It’s the SCOTUS job to decide this, not Bush’s.
Well, he better hurry because he’s only got a few more days. Or, maybe it’s like I heard from some posters
***Then argue with those posters, troll.
that Clinton was going to stay in office longer — so as a variation on that, President George Bush may stay in office longer,
***Where do you come up with this stuff? Maybe you’re the one sitting around trying to bolster your own lack of evidence.
after Obama is prosecuted and see the country through another election to make up for the last election fraud.
***Another election would not be constitutional. Now here’s a reward for any lurkers who have actually read this far and will read the next sentence. JimRob himself posted that he would like to see this done, and I pointed out to him it was not constitutional.
That *is* the type of thinking I’ve seen posted here.
***then take it up with them that post it.
It’s quite amazing how people really want to “stretch” things totally out of touch with reality
***You mean, like your alien abduction nonsense?
— when they really desire something so desperately.
***Like an alien abduction.
I would suggest an alternative, which is to get your state to pass a state law properly vetting a Presidential Candidate like Oklahoma is.
***It’s a great idea, and I support it. So go and do it, you’ve got 4 years to get it right. We’re working on a more exigent circumstance and having trolls like you in our way is a real nuisance.
That’s a state law that I’m supporting, and I sure do hope it goes through without trouble (and I think it will). I didn’t support Obama and I was happy to see Governor Palin as the Vice President, and supported her enthusiastically (she is the only thing that rescued McCain in any way, but it wasn’t enough to overcome McCain being McCain).
***Steam of consciousness blah blah blah I hope there isn’t an argument in here because I got MEGO.
But, I lost in the election, just like a lot of other conservatives did. And so, that meant that something else was going to have to be done.
***dog returns to its vomit, causes MEGO — My eyes glaze over.
And that something else is exactly what I’ve been talking about with these state laws. This is what will prevent Obama from walking all over the vetting process, once again.
***But will do nothing about the injury to the constitution taking place right now. So get out of our way, troll.
Parsing and debunking ST overly verbose posts are a job in itself.
The horse is still just as dead, and getting “deader” if that’s possible. We’re one less day in the count to January 20th than we were yesterday. And no court is going to do anything on Saturday and Sunday. That leaves only Monday. And then come Monday — I wonder what some posters are going to be saying when Tuesday is just hours away — from the swearing in. One has to wonder about how some are in touch with the realities of politics, as they are today.
I would think it’s about time to work on how to *deal with Obama* as he becomes President — because he’s definitely not going to be working to get conservative bills done with the Democrat Congress that we’ve got.
It appears to me, that while Obama *is* President (after taking office), that many are going to be chasing this court case, that court case, looking at the thinking of the Supreme Court with one, with the other, looking for the “next date” on the court calendar that means something — and chasing radio programs, blog entries, documents — all the while Obama and Congress are passing legislation left and right. That’s not the way to deal with Obama’s first few days, weeks and months in office. Getting involved in the process of what’s going on with the President and the Congress and legislation is what’s going to be needed. That’s where time is going to need to be spent.
AND — I think that’s exactly where Obama wants your energy put to use — chasing down all these court cases — while he and Congress gets their legislation passed. It makes sense to me that this is exactly where he would like a lot of conservative energy placed, while he does his thing with Congress. It’s something that he considers is good for him, to have you with little time to consider what he’s actually *doing* while many are spending a lot of time on these court cases, documents, radio programs, strategies, etc., and etc.
With the actual “track record” that many have here — Obama is pleased, because he knows you’ll be sidetracked on this stuff for quite a long time. And, it’s obvious that he doesn’t mind at all. It seems that you’re playing right into his game and your time on these issues will make it so that you don’t have as much time on anything else that Obama does while in office. You only have so much time and when someone is so obsessive/compulsive about one particular thing and about accomplishing one particular thing — nothing else gets on the radar (i.e., all the other bills Obama is going to put through, and the work required there).
It’s like I said before, these same posters here thought that some of these other lower court cases were going to get something done and accomplished. They didn’t. They got kicked up to the Supreme Court. So, that was the next thing that many thought would do something — that the Supreme Court would act on these cases. They didn’t and they are now running out of time before January 20th. The other thing was to inform the Electoral College voters about Obama not being qualified. The only problem is — no one had any evidence that a single Electoral College Voter accepted. The bottom line, the Electoral College voters didn’t listen and they went right ahead with their votes. The next step was that Vice President Cheney and some other Congressman were going to put forth an objection before the Electoral College Vote was certified. Did Cheney say anything about it? Did any other Congressman raise any objection about Obama’s qualifications? Nada, zip, nothing. It was certified and that was it. Next, it was something that was going to be heard right after the certification, by the Supreme Court. That was supposed to be a *strategy* of the Supreme Court to “checkmate” Obama (doncha know...). Nothing there either. Nothing happened. Now, it’s something that is going to happen *after* the inauguration. After the inauguration, some has posted that there’s going to be a sheriff or marshall walk into the White House and escort Obama out and we’ll have another President after that happens. Can it be any funnier!?
Just from the track record, one can safely say *nothing* is going to happen there — and Obama is going to be in office and working with Congress to get bills through as fast as possible in these first few days and weeks and months.
BUT, many of the posters here are going to be *fervently working* on those documents, perhaps trying to start other court cases themselves, perhaps joining court cases, perhaps giving money to court cases — while Obama and the Congress sail right through with their legislation (with many others scurrying around with the Qualifications issue). The more I think about it, it seems to be worth quite a bit for Obama to have sidetracked so many, so they can’t put their energies anywhere else on his legislative programs that he’s going to be putting through with the Democrat Congress. It would seem to be pretty smart on Obama’s part. It’s too bad that some conservatives aren’t as smart to not fall into Obama’s trap.
I’ve seen several posters in the past say
***Then take it up with them.
— well, we’ve still got time for these court cases to work out. But, here we are — and they’re not working out (just like I said they wouldn’t be working out, with the lack of any kind of evidence that any court would accept)
***Embedded parenthetical, torturous writing. Take a writing class alongside that critical thinking class.
. And so, I’m wondering what some posters are going to be saying after January 20th.
***The troll dog returns to its vomit of an elaborate argument from silence, the silence of the future.
Oh..., I know that some will say that they “keep on going” — but they’ll keep beating the horse making sure it’s still dead... that’s all.
***Argument from silence. You can’t know the future. Arguing against what you think someone will say is interesting, but useless.
The horse that is still running is the horse that concerns the state laws for vetting a Presidential Candidate.
***Classic fallacy. There are other horses still running. The inauguration hasn’t even happened yet.
If we had that kind of “energy” that is put forth here — on those state laws, we would have a whole bunch of states with these laws in short order.
***Yah right. Let’s devote all this energy to something that might happen in 4 years in the hopes that the democratic congress doesn’t just move the goal posts. In the meantime we can do something about not even letting Obama assume the presidency. Go ahead and do that, go on, and we’ll do our thing. We’re not stealing any of your precious bodily fluids nor “energy” and your chances of alien abduction are not heightened, so... go on, you’re safe.
But, I think that all these posters of this mind to get Obama out of office by the Supreme Court or other courts or some arcane documents that someone is trying to dig up — are simply going to be “tied up” down these avenues forever —
***That would be their purview. Your argument will make a heckuva lot more sense starting at the end of January rather than right when we’re focusing on this issue at its prime. That causes suspicion, which along with all of your other troll activities, is thoroughly warranted. Not only that, you’re a coward — “oh, let’s all just give up now on this court stuff and focus on my pet project over here for 4 years from now”... What a gigantic, steaming pile.
and doing precisely what Obama would want, anyway — getting sidetracked
***Well, at least the troll came up with a new argument rather than returning to some vomit. It’s interesting how these trolls worry about minor stuff like, “How this will make FR look bad” or “sidetracking” but just overlook the huge constitutional issue of eligibility. It’s a form of straining at a gnat but swallowing a camel.
and not doing anything to stop him the next time or doing anything in regards to his legislative agenda with the Democrat Congress.
***How did that work on the last election, hmmm? Not very well, eh? But we are still working on this eligibility stuff which has the (albeit slight) potential of knocking him out completely, while you guys play footsie with democrats.
Perhaps a lot of these same posters
***Perhaps you should take it up with those posters.
will finally get the idea that they’re gonna have to be dealing with Obama as President
***You are a coward. “Let’s give up now”
and that means dealing with what he could do and — thus — start working on that level.
***French collaborator coward, to be exact.
I can always hope that this is the case, but it doesn’t seem that several posters
***Take it up with those several posters.
are going to get connected with that reality of what Obama is going to do in office
***They’re more connected with reality than you are, alien abduction boy.
(and he’s just a few days away from being in office, and still “nothing” has happened the way that these posters have wanted).
***moving the goal posts.
I’ve spent enough time on Star Traveler, she’s just a troll looking to divert, starving for attention or something odd like that. The fact that she believes in the alien abduction stuff shows a very tenuous grasp of reality. She can’t put together a single post without a logical fallacy. She continues to troll on CoLB threads but she offers nothing of any real value. If she does post anything of value from now on, someone else will have to bring it to my attention because her posts aren’t worth reading.
You said — “Are you still here? You stand out like a vagrant at a cotillion.”
Yep, I’m here. :-)
Just gotta take care of little things, now and again, doncha know... And, there are other interesting things on Free Republic, too, besides a great life out there.
But, aside from that, what can I do for you?
Not even that.
Monday is a federal holiday.
All federal courts will be closed in observance of MLK Day.
So they only have two hours today and the hours between 8:00 a.m. and 11:59 a.m. on Tuesday.
You da Man, Kevmo!
Parsing and debunking ST overly verbose posts are a job in itself.
***It’s too much for me. That’s probably her aim anyways. I’m convinced she needs to review her medication schedule. Feel free to chime in. There’s no real argument there.
Oh..., I forgot the holiday... :-)
You’re right. It’s *done* — it seems. I really don’t know what kind of “hope” that some here are holding out for. I guess (from some posts I’ve read) that they’re really hoping that the Chief Justice refuses to administer the oath of office.
I guess we’ll wait and see if that happens... (any guesses as to the chances?)...
—
Hey... but here in Oklahoma, I’m really looking forward to seeing the exact wording of that bill about vetting a Presidential candidate, I can’t see it until the legislative session opens, but it was already announced by a legislator that put it in. So, we’ll see. That’s the *best prospect* I’ve seen, so far...
Woo hoo for Oklahoma!
[ you know..., Oklahoma had the highest percentage of voters for the Republican ticket, over all other states, and every last single county in the state went for the Republican ticket. In addition, the two major metropolitan areas (the two largest cities) went *all* for the Republican ticket. The state of Oklahoma is obviously the best place to start this kind of process... :-) ... ]
The Oklahoma Bill seems logical but I am not sure that Brad Henry will sign such a bill.
You didn’t show me to be wrong.
***Sure I did.
This is just another twist to attack me again.
***ahh, did the little CoLB troll get his feelings hurt? Maybe mommy can help you with your owwie. In the meantime, lurkers will note that I challenged mlo to a debate on the credibility of this subject matter and he declined. He’s just a troll.
Except that all I was disputing was your use of statistics.
***You disputed the independence of the 2 events. You are right, they’re not independent. That’s because Obama’s team took their forged CoLB document from IBaPHORGERIE.
Blogger admits Hawaii birth certificate forgery, subverting Obama claims (Uh-oh)
Israel Insider ^ | 3 July 2008 | Reuven Koret
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2040486/posts
Posted on 07/03/2008 4:35:19 PM PDT by SE Mom
But since mlo is late coming up to speed on this issue, he missed that little item.
And you’ve conceded the point. Rather than accept that and move on you distort things to attack me.
***I conceded a different point. You proceeded along a new point of discussion. I distorted nothing.
If that’s not troll behavior then I don’t know what is.
***It’s obvious from your behavior on the CoLB threads that you know exactly what troll behavior is because you expertly engage in it.
According to your previous descriptions of a “troll” you’ve been acting like one for a while now.
***Ahh, is that an acceptance of my challenge to debate you? I also threw in the fact that we should define the term “troll” on Free Republic IIRC as a side note.
You said — “I’ve spent enough time on Star Traveler, she’s just a troll looking to divert, starving for attention or something odd like that. The fact that she believes in the alien abduction stuff shows a very tenuous grasp of reality. She can’t put together a single post without a logical fallacy. She continues to troll on CoLB threads but she offers nothing of any real value. If she does post anything of value from now on, someone else will have to bring it to my attention because her posts aren’t worth reading.”
Now, now..., I haven’t even finished getting to your other posts, yet. You’re going to leave me “high and dry”...? I’m going to be very sad... :-)
But, I think that the reasoning and logic for what is *actually happening* is very compelling. You build a “case” on the basis of what you “fervently desire” (and while I do recognize that kind of thinking, there are limits to what it can do in “real life” — the “fervent desires”). And so, one must let “reality” of “what is actually happening” — speak to oneself and help determine a course of action, along with possible new strategies.
It’s like being in a war. A general who keeps losing battle after battle after battle — better get a new “battle plan”... :-) Some people here need a new battle plan, I would say. That’s the “reality” that anyone who reads these posts — are *painfully* aware of...
—
I’ll mention something about the alien abduction thread, since you seem intent on bringing it up. A couple of FReepers posted two different threads, close in time to one another. One was an article saying that these people who claim alien abductions have found something out, in terms of prayers to Jesus. It was reported that prayers to Jesus stopped some people’s supposed “alien abduction”. I don’t know about those things, but I certainly can comment on the thread from the standpoint of what the Bible says, and I do that. I take what the Bible has said about some of these things, and in light of other pastors, preachers and Christian teachers — and put that out for comment.
Then there was another thread that was some kind of study done by a church about how these so-called alien abductions relate to Christianity itself. And it was a caucused thread. Some posters did not like that it was a caucused thread and the Religion Moderator said that most of the people who object to the caucused threads are the ones who are “anti” — whatever the thread says (and so, he left it as caucused).
On that caucused thread, there was something mentioned about how psychological and psychiatric professionals are coming across more of these so-called alien abduction experiences with people and they contain the same details from person to person — even though all these various patients don’t know each other. The numbers given, from either surveys or from professionals, themselves are from 1 to 3% of the U.S. population in that category. It has caused somewhat of a concern among these professionals.
Now, as for me..., I don’t know exactly what is going on there, but it’s apparent something is going on with these people. LOL... And, it’s a good topic to discuss in terms of the “idea” if aliens *even exist* in the first place.
And that’s one thing that I don’t think is true — that there are alien civilizations more advanced than us and they are visiting and abducting people. I don’t see that’s true — at all — from what I see in the Bible. So, I’m applying what I know of the Bible, to that subject, and saying that I don’t think they are “aliens” from other civilizations visiting here and abducting people.
BUT, of course, with some people — just talking about such things is “too much” for them... LOL..
That’s okay, because I do think that the Bible is the last word on the subject and that if anyone wants to know what is happening with these alien abductions, that one is going to find out from what the authoritative Word of the Bible says.
But, then again — as this poster noted that I said before — just *talking* about ‘things of the Bible” and applying the Bible’s thinking to various things in life (including applying it to the idea of whatever alien abductions are) — is “cannon fodder” for others who like to “point to this” (anyone referring to the Bible as authoritative) — as something to ridicule (usually from the “left” and the “liberals” who want God out of everything in this life).
And I personally don’t care if the liberals and leftists use someone’s comments about the Bible being authoritative in these matters (all matters in life, actually) as “cannon fodder” — because those liberals who deny God and deny the Bible’s authority over these matters — are fools, as the Bible says they are, in denying our Creator God.
It would seem that some posters here would also deny the authority of the Word of God, in applying to these matters or any other matter in life (in education or in science or other matters of everyday life).
That’s my viewpoint in the subject, since this poster wants to refer to it here...
You were saying — “It’s too much for me. That’s probably her aim anyways. I’m convinced she needs to review her medication schedule.”
Ummm..., if your command of the “facts” here (stated above) are an indication of how you view the “facts” about the Obama qualifications issue (in that if you “think” something, it’s becomes true...) — then — that could be the reason why many are getting “nowhere” with this particular Obama issue... LOL..
Hasn’t anyone ever told you that simply because you wish to “think” something — it doesn’t make it true??
You said — “The Oklahoma Bill seems logical but I am not sure that Brad Henry will sign such a bill.”
I just don’t know about that yet. I guess that’s something that remains to be seen. Democrats here are more conservative than in other places. That’s one good thing... :-)
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