Posted on 01/07/2009 6:00:18 PM PST by Inappropriate Laughter
| "....These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation; but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." - Jesus |
Arjuna:
Of those who love you as the Lord of Love,
Ever present in all, and those who seek you
As the nameless, formless Reality,
Which way is sure and swift, love or knowledge?
Krishna:
For those who set their hearts on me
And worship me with unfailing devotion and faith,
The way of love leads sure and swift to me.
Those who seek the transcendental Reality,
Unmanifested, without name or form,
Beyond the reach of feeling and of thought,
With their senses subdued and mind serene
And striving for the good of all beings,
They too will verily come unto me.
Yet hazardous
And slow is the path to the Unrevealed,
Difficult for physical man to tread.
But they for whom I am the goal supreme,
Who do all work renouncing self for me
And meditate on me with single-hearted devotion,
These will I swiftly rescue
From the fragment's cycle of birth and death
To fullness of eternal life in me.
Still your mind in me, still yourself in me,
And without doubt you shall be united with me,
Lord of Love, dwelling in your heart.
But if you cannot still your mind in me,
Learn to do so through the practice of meditation.
If you lack the will for such self-discipline,
Engage yourself in selfless service of all around you,
For selfless service can lead you at last to me.
If you are unable to do even this,
Surrender yourself to me in love,
Receiving success and failure with equal calmness
As granted by me.
Better indeed is knowledge than mechanical practice.
Better than knowledge is meditation.
But better still is surrender in love,
Because there follows immediate peace.
That one I love who is incapable of ill will,
And returns love for hatred.
Living beyond the reach of I and mine
And of pleasure and pain, full of mercy,
Contented, self-controlled, firm in faith,
With all their heart and all their mind given to me –
With such people I am in love.
Not agitating the world or by it agitated,
They stand above the sway of elation,
Competition, and fear, accepting life
Good and bad as it comes. They are pure,
Efficient, detached, ready to meet every demand
I make on them as a humble instrument of my work.
They are dear to me who run not after the pleasant
Or away from the painful, grieve not
Over the past, lust not today,
But let things come and go as they happen.
Who serve both friend and foe with equal love,
Not buoyed up by praise or cast down by blame,
Alike in heat and cold, pleasure and pain,
Free from selfish attachments and self-will,
Ever full, in harmony everywhere,
Firm in faith – such as these are dear to me.
But dearest to me are those who seek me
In faith and love as life's eternal goal.
They go beyond death to immortality.
Those who are free from selfish attachments,
Who have mastered the senses and passions,
Act not, but are acted through by the Lord.
Listen to me now, O son of Kunti,
How one who has become an instrument
In the hands of the Lord attains the Absolute,
The supreme consummation of wisdom.
Unerring in discrimination,
Sovereign of the senses and passions,
Free from the clamor of likes and dislikes,
They lead a simple, self–reliant life
Based on meditation, using speech,
Body, and mind to serve the Lord of Love.
Free from self–will, aggressiveness, arrogance,
From the lust to possess people or things,
They are at peace with themselves and others
And enter into the unitive state.
United with the Lord, ever joyful,
Beyond the reach of self–will and sorrow,
They serve me in every living creature
And attain supreme devotion to me.
By loving me they share in my glory
And enter into my boundless being.
All their acts are performed in my service,
And through my grace they win eternal life.
Make every act an offering to me;
Regard me as your only protector.
Make every thought an offering to me;
Meditate on me always.
Drawing upon your deepest resources,
You shall overcome all difficulties
Through my grace. But if you will not heed me
In your self–will, nothing will avail you.
If you say, “I will not fight this battle,”
Your own nature will drive you into it.
If you will not fight the battle of life,
Your own karma will drive you into it.
The Lord dwells in the hearts of all creatures,
And he whirls them round on the wheel of time.
Run to him for refuge with all your strength
And peace profound will be yours through his grace.
I give you these precious words of wisdom;
Reflect on them and then choose what is best.
These are the last words I shall speak to you,
Dear one, for your spiritual fulfillment.
Be aware of me always, adore me,
Make every act an offering to me,
And you shall come to me;
This I promise, for you are dear to me.
Leave all other support, and look to me
For protection. I shall purify you
From the sins of the past. Do not grieve.
Do not share this wisdom with anyone
Who lacks in devotion or self–control,
Lacks the desire to learn, or who scoffs at me.
Those who teach this supreme mystery
Of the Gita to all those who love me
Will come to me without doubt. No one
Can render me more devoted service;
No one on earth can be more dear to me.
Those who meditate on these holy words
Worship me with wisdom and devotion.
Even those who listen to them with faith,
Free from doubts, will find a happier world.
Have you fully understood my message?
Are you free from your doubts and delusions?
Arjuna:
You have dispelled my doubts and delusions
And made me ready to fight this battle.
My faith is firm now, and I will do your will.
Krishna:
I am the same to all beings. My love
Is the same always. Nevertheless, those
Who meditate on me with devotion,
They dwell in me, and I shine forth in them.
Even the worst sinner becomes a saint
When he loves me with all his heart. This love
Will soon transform his personality
And fill his heart with peace profound.
O son of Kunti, this is my promise:
Those who love me, they shall never perish.
- Excerpts from the Bhagavad-Gita.
My point?
Practically all advanced civilizations on this planet have had the same lines of reasoning on coping with the real world, as that quote from the Bible.
Unluckily for all of us, a number of competing profits started up with different slogans and different brand names.
Which is why, barring some empirical test for religious truth, it's all about where and when you are born. And into which tribe.
Using your mind to learn how things work, or just trying to be a good person, count for nothing.
Evolution says that we started out simple, and over time became more complex. That just isn't possible: UNLESS there is a giant outside source of energy supplying the Earth with huge amounts of energy. If there were such a source, scientists would certainly know about it.
One slight problem:
If someone took a human zygote, and artificially cleaved it into two, and implanted both back into a woman's womb, resulting in the birth of a pair of identical twins, through artificial intervention, does it mean that the human intervention led to one soul turning into two? Does that imply that man directly played God, and was the causal effect that led to the formation of the second soul?
Perhaps what we call spirit or soul, is just the conscious awareness that does not last beyond death- like deep sleep or coma- no awareness of time or space, forever. A thousand years wouldn't seem longer than a fraction of a second.
Ahhh, someone has been reading “Fundies Say the Darndest Things” haven’t you? I recognize that ridiculously ignorant statement anywhere. Hah!
“For me, I see that sort of thing as a a good justification for the use of the abuse button.”
Juvenile arrogance is not uncommon amongst educated non-believers.
But I do find it somewhat uniquely comical that one would choose to display the horrid results of mutation in an attempt to convince others that the gods of Time and Chance routinely use it to produce an increasingly intricate and advanced biologic unit.
And to show such ignorance of God’s word by assuming that somewhere in it we are promised a perfect life is telling. It is understandable that biologists defend their work and even their believed (though unproven) theories on how meaningless and lifeless matter became us.
But criticism of opposing opinion is not made more valid by displaying a severe misunderstanding of it. That goes for ToE believers as well as the rest of us.
Are you familiar with Poe’s law?
God knew you were going to do that and created two souls in anticipation of your actions.
So God knows our actions, and yet we're supposed to have free will, and will also be judged for our actions. I'm so confused!
God knows you are confused You were created that way. Don’t feel bad. Every creative process involves editing and quality control. Enjoy the cutting room floor.
God made me write that,.... or was it the Devil? Oh depends on how you interpret that, if you thought I was being good then God did it, and if you took offense, then the Devil most definitely.
What about the thought that if science and Scripture conflict that it's the human interpretation of the SCIENCE that needs to be re-examined?
Or has it never occurred to you that science could be wrong about something?
I'm talking about physical reality, thing we see and touch, not wording in a multiply translated, multimillenia old stories. Wording is far, far more subjective. Even a literal interpretation is soft compared to observed facts. No mention of 'truth' here. It is your understanding of what science is and your desire to make reality fit your preconceived superstitions that's at fault. Most grownups don't do that anymore.
Religious truth is partial.. religions are selective..
Science is religious and has its own shamans.. and cargo..
It is possible humans cannot retain all of reality..
Forcing Cargo Cultism.. and shamanism..
The observer problem is very persistent..
Make that most grownups who contribute to society by building and inventing things, or by finding out how things work, so inventors and engineers can build things.
It doesn’t take much intelligence to follow a recipe, even in a medical lab.
Twins are not identical.. their iris’s and finger prints are unique.. for one thing.. Could be they wholly unique.. in a plethora of other ways.. especially spiritual..
And yet things get invented and built using the findings of science. Things like medicine, anesthesia, satellites, computers, cool digital watches, iPods.
Not all these things will be beneficial to society, and some may be harmful, but science is about what works.
I think religion would better serve itself and the world by addressing what should and should not be done with the findings of science.
Reality itself will take care of weeding out findings that are in error.
Is disproved old scientific FACT?....... Superstition?..
Does scientific fact have a life span?..
So you do believe in the ten commandments?..
If something is overriding the 2nd law to decrease entropy in living systems, please tell me what that is.
Simply poring energy at something isn’t enough. In order for entropy to decrease, work needs to be done in and on the system. What is the source of work?
You got derailed by my usage of the term 'identical'. What I was conveying was that one potential individual ended up being two. Whether the resultant individuals are identical or not is immaterial to the outcome considering the multiplication of the "souls".
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