Posted on 12/30/2008 4:52:31 PM PST by SeekAndFind
Seeing reality is not the same as hating America. The great deal of good that you see used to be an abundance of good, and before that overflowing good. If something doesn’t change, what is coming is moving from “a great deal of good” to “some good if you look hard for it.”
Presumeably freepers will be looking to effect that change.
It’s not just Panarin that has been predicting this kind of thing for a decade, it’s the entire Soviet brain trust/propaganda machine , via Pravda, that’s been promulgating the worldwide Communist line since AT LEAST the beginning of the Cold War. It’s primitive thinking at its best: Pravda used to offer vivid descriptions of AMerican dance halls and discos as “proof” of our self-involved materialistic shortcomings. Of course, all they had to offer was their bitter Vodka.
That’s a brilliant quote of Mencken’s .
I think P. J. O’Rourke owes a lot to him.
On the one hand, I, like many FReepers, think that the big 3's management gave away the store a long time ago by capitulating to unreasonable union demands and are now looking for federal assistance to maintain their status quo. However, while that contains a huge dollop of truth, that isn't the whole story. Especially when one considers that while the auto cos are asking for loans in the 25-75 billion dollar range, there has been less outrage here on FR about the $700 billion bailout for the banking industry (a bailout that has so far had no government oversight) than there has been about those asked for loans. My position on the auto cos is that we need to let them enter chapter 11 bankruptcy so that those onerous and untenable union contracts can be dealt with. It is going to happen sooner or later as the current situation is unsustainable. The question is will the auto cos do this before or after the taxpayers get hosed by the loans.
On the other hand, I don't want to see any more American industry lost to foreign competition. I am the kind of FReeper that believes a country needs a strong industrial base. It is just my opinion, but I don't see service based economies as being sustainable long term. My reasoning is this;
1. companies (in order to maximize profits) move their manufacturing capability to country x because of lower wage costs keeping only engineering, design, and management in their home country.
2. countries that get the new manufacturing capability (after being handed the technology) replicate that manufacturing capability in their own facilities and start producing their own goods at even lower costs than the original.
3. the replicated manufacturers, when they begin turning a profit, hire their own engineers, designers, and management and start producing original products, i.e. they become a true competitor to the original company.
4. the original company, to remain competitive, slashes budget and personnel thereby beginning a downward death spiral that ends when the foreign country's manufacturing buys the original company to get its name value and shuts down the original company's offices except for a skeleton crew needed to maintain a business license.
(btw, I know this is a simplistic take on a complex issue, but I am not writing a book, just trying to make a point in an online discussion based on personal observations)
The personal computer industry is a prime example of the above scenario. Gateway, formerly one of America's largest pc makers is now owned by the Taiwanese. Dell is in a downward spiral, but it still has name value so it will be picked up soon by a foreign buyer. The truth behind my logic is that the necessary players in manufacturing are the engineers and designers, and they can be bought. Once you have those, the actual product can be made and managed by anybody anywhere.
I am not a protectionist nor am I an absolute free trader. I believe that there needs to be a balance because a strong manufacturing base is essential for national security reasons. I also see the hypocrisy by our elected officials and am sickened by it. I've got a feeling you and I are more ideologically aligned than first impressions would indicate.
I work in the land industry, rural properties. We are getting many inquiries for large parcels of land where there are no restrictions, minerals, water supplies for 3 or 4 homes. Some of my clients are seeing a lot of people looking for remote areas, western Virginia is seeing a lot of activity.
It is treason to talk about taking up arms against your country...take back power in the voting booth. No one stole this election...we lost. Time to face it and fix it.
The Southern states receive more than they pay in taxes...in fact it’s worse than what I posted. I could not get the newer numbers. I could not get on the website...This is 2004 numbers. Another poster showed Carolina as getting 136% so in effect you are taking money from the feds if you live there.
If California and New York got to keep some of their money also Michigan maybe these states would be in better shape. Southern states have insufficient taxes to run their states...thus the feds step in and essentially bail them out year after year. This is unfair and makes the Southern Senators bleating about their subsidized transplants in their subsidized states doing so well a bunch of feeding from the government trough hypocrites-not really true Toyota is doing well anyway. Toyota is in a world of hurt. They aren’t worried because between the subsidies they receive from state and federal money (hope this ends real soon)-not to mention their country (Japan), they will be just fine...not that they are so brilliant...just have better bailout potential.
Thsi partially explains why Southern states can have lower state tax rates than places like New Jersey or Masschusetts- they are getting part of their governmental services paid for by tax dollars transferred from other states.
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
Do I want to over throw the government, no. We have been dumbed down to the point that the government can do whatever they want. We have allowed a government of the people to become separate from the people. Our forefathers did not give us promises of a life free from responsibility, they did not offer us babysitting, they gave us the freedom to be all that we could be without government interference. They knew that eventually human nature would take over.
We know not to feed wild animals because it will take away their natural instinct of survival. Our government has done that with us. They have neutered the population so now the population needs the government for their survival.
You and I may not agree with what is going on...I think it’s bad for the country, but we had an election and lost. This is not reason enough to commit treason. We need to win some elections and put this country on the right path. This may take time. Pres. Bush has hurt the GOP/conservative brand.
Unfortunately, the government has made us entitlement junkies. As long as they feed the addiction nothing will change. Look at the mindset of our population. There are actually people out there that believe he will take care of them instead of them taking care of themselves. He actually said it was good to take from some to give to others, and people bought into that!
My ex-boss told me I was brainwashed because I voted Republican in the primaries, the only one in my office to do so. He asked me what was the Republican party going to do for me? I explained I did not want a promise of anybody doing anything for me, I can take care of myself and my family. Needless to say, I lasted another 2 mos. at that job and quit because I could not be around the insanity of that office.
First of all....what makes you think we're going to get another chance? Secondly....it wasn't just Bush that hurt conservatism or that let us down and wussed out on us. It was all of the Republicans. I say all due to the fact that not ONE of them stood up and spoke out re: what the DemocRats were doing to this country and HAVE DONE to this country for decades, much less during the entire Bush administration. And all we got from McCain was his insane blinky-smiley face and a load of his usual "my friends across the aisle" bs.
I hate to be a pessimist...but I frankly don't think we'll get another chance at winning any elections. We've let the damned Dems steal too many for too long while our ""leaders"" stood by in silence. Now...I hate ALL politicians (except for Sarah).
Lincoln himself never claimed that the US would seek to put down the rebellion (i.e. southern secession) over slavery. The debate prior to the war and even years after the war started was over the expansion of slavery to new territories. Lincoln and the GOP (and the Whigs before them) opposed this expansion, while the Democratic party favored allowing the people in the states or territory to decide whether slavery was allowed.
The Emancipation Proclamation was made more than halfway through the war to demoralize the Confederacy and to rally the abolition movement behind an unpopular war effort.
As you mention, other countries ended slavery without a civil war. For example, the UK government simply bought the slaves from the slave owners and freed the slaves, then abolished slavery.
But ending slavery was not Lincoln’s goal. The war was fought over Union; i.e., over whether a state has the right to secede if it is the will of the people in that state to do so.
I do not know enough of antebellum history to say whether the war was unnecessary, but I do know that Lincoln’s abrogations of basic civil rights (such as habeas corpus) were extreme and unnecessary. Many of his political opponents were jailed for simply speaking out against the war.
Not exactly.
Article III Section 3:
“Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.”
No person involved with the Confederate States of America was tried for treason.
But if you look at the definition of treason, one of the examples given is the betrayal of a trust or confidence, breach of faith, or treachery.
If anyone has committed treason, then it is our so-called elected “representatives” in Congress.
Congress betrayed our trust and confidence.
They have breached the faith, and have used treachery to screw us over.
“What about judges-McCain is pro-life. I didn’t like McCain that much either, but he was a Repub.”
McCain is a weak knee knocking RINO.
Look how fast he went back to groveling on his knees to “reach across the aisle” and suck up to the demoncraps and the false messiah.
“What does ‘tipping point’ mean?”
Probably when society’s leeches realize that their messiah isn’t going to deliver the bacon as he promised with his “change” mantra.
I’m going to make a bold prediction:
2011 will find America with all fifty states intact.
If WND says the sky is blue, I’m going to double-check just to be sure.
What was settled in 1865 is ‘might makes right’. No more, no less.
No state will ever be allowed to secede-nor should it be.
I know...I still think the judges would be better though.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.