Posted on 12/16/2008 7:46:11 PM PST by pissant
“You are forgetting that Ann was back in WA state before the end of August, 1961 staying with a friend of her mother and didn’t return to HI until early 1963.”
I understand...I’m just pointing out that if a title search doesn’t show that she ever owned a house at the birth announcement address, it doesn’t prove anything - because she could have lived there without owning it. Now, the search might come up with the owner at the time, who may still be alive to answer questions.
BTW...Berg's cases is still alive.
* Pennsylvania (Phil Berg): (12/16/08) o Application (08A505) refiled and submitted to Justice Kennedy o Berg v. Obama o History * California (Dr. Orly Taitz for Gail Lightfoot): (12/15/08) o Submitted to SCOTUS Associate Justice Kennedy (docket) o Lightfoot v. Bowen o AmericaMustKnow history * Connecticut (Cort Wrotnowski): (12/15/08) o DENIED application for stay and/or injuction o Wrotnowski v. Bysiewicz o History * New Jersey (Leo Donofrio): (12/08/08) o DENIED application of stay o Donofrio v. Wells o History * New York (Christopher Strunk): (12/04/08) SCOTUS Docket number may be produced soon o Chris Strunk NY Cases o History * Texas (Darrel Hunter): (12/01/08) SCOTUS Docket number unknown o Hunter v. Obama o History At the State level: Latest update: 12/16/08 * California: o Alan Keyes: Keyes v. Bowen (12/07/08) + AmericaMustKnow history o Joan Corbett: Corbett v. Bowen (11/16/08) + AmericaMustKnow history * Hawaii: o Andy Martin: Martin v. Lingle (11/26/08) + AmericaMustKnow history * Kentucky: o Daniel John Essek: Essek v. Obama (12/01/08) + AmericaMustKnow history * Pennsylvania: o Letters to State officials RE: Electors sent o James Schneller: Schneller v. Cortes (12/14/08) * Texas: o Jody Brockhausen: Brockhausen v. Andrade (11/19/08) + AmericaMustKnow history * Washington State: o Motion for expedited discovery, subpoenas o James Broe: Broe v. Reed (12/16/08) Unconfirmed Reports: (12/11/08) The following presumably does not include all above action; verifying what is a “challenge” versus “legal actions.” * Phil Berg mentioned another Berg v. Obama case under seal at this time
It is also significant that Obama might have held another nation’s passport. That’s the really intriguing possibility.
.........
I don’t think its any one thing that makes Obama’s citizenship questionable.
Rather its the pattern.
I think a lot of people don’t want to be on board with this because they are afraid of failure and thus looking like losers and kooks.
That appears to be an urban myth. The State Department issued a travel advisory for Americans travelling Pakistan, but there is no evidence that Americans were ever banned from traveling to that country. Keep in mind, Pakistan was a Cold War ally, so there's no reason why Americans would have been banned from travelling to that country.
But, even if Obama did have other passports in addition to his US one, so what? I have three passports, including one from the US.
Ann and Jr were back in WA state before the month of August 1961 was over and remained there until early 1963.
Berg did not go to London, Jerome Corsi was there but I have no knowledge that he looked into colonial Kenyan records.
I think you are right, and then others just can't comprehend that this sort of thing could actually happen, especially here in the US. Others can't see the big picture or connect the dots. Frankly, I don't care what they think or fear, there is something just way too strange and too much mystery going on with this and I find it very scary. NO ONE goes through life with absolutely NO trail, unless .......
You are right, it was Corsi instead of Berg. I heard an interview with Corsi from London saying he was going to be there a few days doing some research. Isn't Corsi working with Berg, doing the research or coordinating? Do I have that confused also? There are so many cases and so much non-info info that it gets confusing at times.
The owners of the birth announcement house in 1961 were Orland and Thelma Lefforge and both are now deceased. Their children are still alive but nothing can be found about them. Especially interesting in this is the fact that their oldest daughter would have been 6 years old at the time and would definitely remember if a woman with a baby had been living in the little cottage in the back yard.
I have no idea if Corsi is working with Berg or not I had pretty much given up any hope of anything coming from what Corsi said was proof he managed to obtain in Kenya and it was never released as to what he did while in London.
There seems to be enough to entitle plaintiffs with Article III standing to discovery.
I think they have been working together and with WND and that the info and documents obtained in Kenya and London (what ever they are) is included in the Berg case that is with the Scotus now. But they have both been very quiet since the first interviews. I assumed that was because of their case.
I don't think there is any record that puts her staying with a friend of her mother in August, 1961.
She arrived at Mercer Island to stay with a high school classmate (Susan Blake) of her's (Stanley Ann's) prior to the time Ann had learned to change diapers which I believe fixes the visit on August 5 or 6. Observe that the birth on August 4 could well have occurred on August 3 US time and date.
There are also enrollment records (for Stanley at the University of Washington for fall quarter, 1961, however fall quarter in 1961 started in late September (or the first of October).
The visit with Susan Blake was a stopover on a trip by S. Ann somewhere else--Ms. Blake says to visit Obama Sr. at Harvard; however Obama Sr. didn't get to Harvard until one year later.
That's the record of which I am aware--and I think this element is very important.
My speculative analysis of what happened is that she went to Kenya to marry Obama Sr. in February 1961 because marriage in Hawaii would have been criminal bigamy. Obama's personal record places her in Kenya within 72 hours of when he was born; he says she came back to Hawaii. How did she do that and when? BOAC would not have let her on the airplane at that late date in her pregnancy and there is testimony from the two missionaries that is what happened.
Routing to the US from Kenya and East Africa was through Glaskow Scotland to Vancouver BC--I believe she went from Vancouver to Susan Blake's home on Mercer Island; then to Hawaii to file a resident's birth affidavit on August 8.
There I'm totally in agreement with you. Aside from his politics, which I really loathe, here's my problem with Barack:
1) First, he's not an American black, and doesn't have an American element to his story. He doesn't descend from sharecroppers, doesn't have grandparents who struggled yet survived because of a deep faith and love for the country, doesn't even have a black ancestor who tolerated bigotry in the 1950s while attending a white school in Boston or Birmingham. No, he's descended from an African who suffered none of these indignities; and a white 60s hippie idiot mother.
2) OK, he has a foreign parent -- millions of us do -- and maybe even had dual citizenship for awhile. But the Americans we know with that kind of "international" background have a German mother (Dad was an officer stationed overseas), a Swiss father (Mom married a diplomat in Geneva) or similar. Something interesting and honorable, and the international connections are related to international service or international business.
Obama's background is actually quite sordid. Radical African father, already married back home, knocks up a cute but dumb leftist blonde American girl. Marries her anyway -- we're not sure if that was before or after she found out he was already married back in Africa. Marriage hardly lasts a year, the couple splits up. Leftist white chick can't tolerate men of her own race or nation, so she travels overseas and marries an Indonesian, has children by this new fellow, and changes her first son's name. Maybe she's such an idiot leftist that she'll do anything to avoid being tainted by America so she begs her new husband to adopt the boy so he isn't an ugly American anymore. Boy attends madrassa for awhile. Idiot white gal can't stand Indonesian, so she divorces him and sends the son to live with his grandparents.
This is where I think the story gets really interesting. Ann Dunham's parents probably have a pile of letters from her in the 1960s and 70s, probably extolling the virtues of living in the Indonesian hellhole, denouncing America and Vietnam (Presidents Johnson and Nixon), and exulting in the fact that little Barack isn't an American anymore and has an Indonesian passport. [I can envision this happening far more than her flying to Kenya to visit her husband's other wife and give birth.] Perhaps, on behalf of her son, she renounced his American citizenship.
Fast forward to his time at Occidental College in LA -- an expensive private school. He still has an Indonesian passport and takes advantage of things to get financial aid for foreign students. He still feels totally American.
If something like the above happened, I can envision that Barack feels and believes he is a 100% American in his heart, if not technically legally.
I don't for a minute find him to be a stealth Muslim or other such lunacy. Yes, he's a dumb leftist, but certainly as true blue American as you or I.
Nonsense.
Stanley Ann and Obama Sr. went to Kenya to get married during winter break in late January 1961 because marrying him in Hawaii would have constituted criminal bigamy in Hawaii and he did not wish to test the issue.
She had been kicked out by her parents at that point and had formed a relationship with Obama Sr.'s other wife and with one of his father's other wives whom Jr. calls grandmother. She stayed in Kenya with them.
Report on college registration records at University of Hawaii are on the long thread and are conclusive that she dropped out of school before the winter term--she wasn't there and there is no evidence anywhere that she was in Hawaii or anywhere else other than Kenya from the time of the marriage on Feb. 2, 1961 to the time she tried to board BOAC in July of 1961 and was rejected because of her pregnancy. In fact, Obama himself has admitted on the record that she was in Kenya 72 hours before his birth.
If you read the link which I provided back in September it distinctly says that Ann arrived at Susan Blake’s home driving the car of her mother’s friend. Maxine Box also said she visited Ann at the home of her mother’s friend where Ann and Jr were staying. We also know because of Susan Blake’s description of Jr as “very new and pink” that Jr was a newborn who hadn’t had the melamine show up yet. The actual schedule of when classes started at UW didn’t matter since Ann was registered in extension courses which she could start and finish at her leisure.
Well, now, that’s good information. I have never heard it before, among 10 million postings. Sources, please, for each of your key points?
Very good sir--I stand corrected.
However in the Susan Blake interview, Susan is very clear that this is only a stopover on the way some where else.
And it is also on the record that Susan's description of the some where else is not correct. So it was simply a stopover.
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