Recognize Kosovo or Serb babies will die

Serbianna ^

[1rudeboy]

I can't let you get away with that, my Putin ass-kissing comrade. Your typical Serb should have, under normal circumstances, felt sympathy for the Georgians.

Yet you did not. Explain.

[montyspython]

I stated I had no sympathy for Sakashvilli you ingorant RINO bushbot, his move was so stupid it was beyond contempt, it was amateurish and arrogant. That idiot was so proud of how well his Israeli trained troops “defeated” the Russians until he they got their asses handed to them. Then he continued to whine about it, he did Georgia no favors and NATO stood there with a dropped jaw and no response... period.

[1rudeboy]

Right. Substitute Milosevic for Sakashvilli, and you will finally understand the point I’m trying to make.

[montyspython]

You don't even know what your own point is, its you who got your panties in bunch because I dared go against the grain and called out Condi Rice and Jorge for what they were, brainless empty suits.

They are playing political cleanup after Sakashvilli's little harebrained stunt. It helped accomplish 3 major things:

1. Provided the trigger the Russians needed to go in and crush any future Georgian resistance allowing Russia to announce to the world that they are still militarily viable and will exercise their muscle in their sphere of influence with nobody to oppose them. This is not Yeltsin's Russia, broke and weak with no means of exerting political, economic or military pressure on anyone.
2. Exposed a glaring hole in NATO's resolve and showed how weak the alliance really is and how powerless it is against Russian aggression. NATO is an aging dog with no teeth and ask Western Europe what will they choose, a fake show down with Russia or their gas turned off?.
3. Shaken European confidence in the US' ability to be a reliable ally. Frankly, the Eastern Europeans are not feeling all that secure at the moment regardless of the White House's rhetoric. They are feeling like they were sold a bill of goods.

Skashvilli did nothing more than help advance Russian energy ambitions and lose South Ossetia and Abkhazia for good. Ask yourself, is Georgia better off now than it was 2 months ago?

[1rudeboy]

At this stage, the more text you throw at me, the more BS.

Try answering my question: if the Russian invasion of Georgia is ok, then the whole Kosovo debacle gets a pass.

[getoffmylawn]

I think you have it reversed. The Russian invasion of Georgia is "ok" BECAUSE of the whole Kosovo debacle. The United States changed the rules and now Russia is taking advantage of the situation. It was the United States that opened Pandora's Box of changing boarders against the will of sovereign nations.

The US's objections to the Russian invasion of Georgia is completely laughable when looked at in the light of Kosovo.

[montyspython]

You failed... again. I never said it was "ok" but rather, as I stated before, you have yet to yank that RINO melon out of your arse and find an ounce of integrity by acknowledging the fact that I had never stated that Russia had any more legitimacy in Georgia than the US had with Kosovo.

I asked you a while back to find one post where I agreed to Russia's action and yet you failed (which failure seems to be a prevailing thing with you) to cough up one. You simply ran away like Sakashvilli.

So either put your money where your mouth is or swallow your turd like a man.

[montyspython]

He doesn't get it, if he has any integrity he would stop playing Puff the Magic Dragon, grow up and acknowledge reality.

Funny thing about this election, I think the running mates should be switched. McCain/Biden and Obama/Palin, at least the alignment with regards to foreign policy would be more appropriate.

[1rudeboy]

I don't mind a Serb/paleo calling me names, it happens all the time when you illustrate their failure of logic. The thing I find most annoying is that they think we are as "malleable" as, say, your typical Russian.

Putin ass-kissing aside, even if they are true American paleos, they still have it wrong.

[1rudeboy]

To illustrate the, um, "less-than-fully-considered" nature of your comment you need to ask yourself--would Russia have invaded Georgia in the absence of Kosovo?

All this blather about "excuses" is simply being made by people trying to find "excuses." And for that, they need to look in the mirror.

[montyspython]

The only thing you illustrated here is that when confronted you ran away. So when are you going to produce those posts?

[1rudeboy]

I don’t have to. Are you denying that you are trying to justify the Russian invasion of Georgia, or not? If you are, then I will. If you are not, then I’m correct and I don’t have to.

[montyspython]

I didn't justify it and I you are claiming that I did, I asked you to prove it at you can't.

You're just a whining pussy.

[montyspython]

“I asked you to prove it at you can’t” should be “I asked you to prove it and you can’t”

[1rudeboy]

Here, let's try it this way, because you're too stupid otherwise. I will number the things that I know to be obvious, and then you can identify (again, by number--you can count, right?) which of my characterizations are incorrect.

Later, when you learn a basic amount of reasoning skills (say, 6th grade-level), you can even try to elaborate.

1. You are upset that the Serbs lost the Kosovo war.
2. You blame the current and former Leaders of the U.S. (Clinton & Bush).
3. You are affirmed by the Russian invasion of Georgia.
4. (Because) you feel it demonstrates the Kosovo War was wrong.

I cannot break it down any more simply. I certainly know a Serb cannot.

[montyspython]

Well apparently then a 6th grader has a better grasp of world events than you so ironically where your failure continues on unabated a 6th grader would have acknowledged their mistake and moved on.

1. US policy towards Kosovo was and is wrong (you yourself acknowledged this)
2. Russia's invasion of Georgia was and is wrong, no affirmation required
3. Both were illegal by international standards

You're monumental problem is that deficiencies in the Bush/Rice paradigm became unraveled and were exposed for what it was, this then bruised your fragile little ego.

[1rudeboy]

So why do you persist in your “after this (Kosovo), therefore because of this (Kosovo)” bullcrap? That is a logical failure of Serbian proportions.

[getoffmylawn]

To illustrate the, um, "less-than-fully-considered" nature of your comment you need to ask yourself--would Russia have invaded Georgia in the absence of Kosovo?

All this blather about "excuses" is simply being made by people trying to find "excuses." And for that, they need to look in the mirror.

"IF" is the biggest word in the dictionary. We'll never know "if" Russian would have invaded Georgia in the absence of Kosovo, because there is no absence of Kosovo. It really happened. America really changed the rules. America's opinion about other countries now changing the boarders of other countries really does remain laughable. It's a really sick joke.

At the very least the actions of the United States places it in the same category of criminal states as Russia. Wonderful. Russia probably didn't need any "excuses", but hot damn did the US every hand them one all nicely gift rapped and personalized when they pulled that crap in Kosovo which we stand behind to this very day.

[1rudeboy]

I understand your desire to treat Russia as a tabula rasa, because it is the foundation of the erroneous conclusion that follows.

Imagine the laughter if someone tried to argue with a straight face that the U.S. action in Kosovo was justified by the Russian action in Chechnya, or some other Russian intervention that happens to be "convenient."

What's happening here is a confluence of a Serbian "element" seeking to justify their behavior, and the "Blame America First™" crowd. And I will return to my fundamental argument (that people are ignoring because they hope it will go away): if one argues that Russia's action in Georgia is acceptable/excusable/justifiable for whatever reason, then one must argue that the U.S. action in Kosovo is the same.

I have the luxury of arguing that both interventions were wrong using a consistent standard. Everyone else is twisting themselves into pretzels.

[getoffmylawn]

You do realize that Chechnya is part of Russia, don't you? Also, Kosovo is not a part of the United States.

I think you have your chronology all wrong too. Do you understand that the United States set the precedent by changing the rules about 'forcibly changing boarders' by its intervention and occupation of Kosovo?

Before the US pulled their crap in Kosovo, what the US did was considered illegal by international law. After the US pulled its crap, international law was pretty much torn up and thrown away. That rule was now null and void. Any country should be allowed to invade and change the boarders of any other country now that the US has changed that rule.

Russian intervention in Georgia happened after the US changed the rules. Once the rule is changed, the US has no right to gripe when another country takes advantage of the rule change. It was the United States that first changed the rules and set the precedent. Before they can gripe about some other country doing the exact same thing they did, the US needs to make amends for its own sins and not worry about what stupid crap other countries are pulling because of the stupid precedent it set.

Remember, Kosovo was the precedent. The US opened that can of worms. You can ignore the concept of "precedent" all you want. I can assure you that the rest of the world isn't. If Russia had set the precedent, then it would be "Blame Russia First", but it didn't. The United States did.

Consistency counts.