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A Teacher on the Front Line as Faith and Science Clash (time to fight force, with force!)
New York Times ^ | August 23, 2008 | AMY HARMON

Posted on 08/24/2008 2:16:12 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts

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To: Amelia

==The creation/ID argument is philosophy & religion, not science.

So is Darwin’s ToE.

==However, as I understand it, C/ID says that things happened in the same way, but God caused it to happen that way. I don’t see that there is necessarily a conflict.

You understanding is based on a misunderstanding. Darwin’s ToE is based on the notion that ALL LIFE is the product of RANDOM MUTATION and NATURAL SELECTION. Both Creation and ID scientists maintain this is impossible. So how exactly does that constitute Creation and ID scientists agreeing that “things happened in the same way” as Darwin’s fairytale would have us believe?


41 posted on 08/24/2008 3:57:49 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: Coyoteman
==Pushing for a theocracy, eh? Going to overthrow the constitution while you're at it?

It no longer matters what your side fears, Wiley. Since the Temple of Darwin relies on force to stifle debate, force will be required to reopen the debate. But I must admit, I rather enjoy the thought of you being constantly plagued by your worst fears as this process unfolds.

42 posted on 08/24/2008 4:05:19 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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The fact remains that the Theory of Evolution remains the defacto explanation of how living things got to their present state in the absence of God. Anyone who pursues a degree in the biological sciences will have to endure the bilge and swill of this Theory. It is quite possible you won't get a passing grade or your thesis denied if you don't regurgitate the barking assumption of Evolutionary Theory. It isn't going to go away.

There is no proof that humans evolved from an ape-like ancestor, only speculation, assumption, and an imaginative arrangement of bones and fossils in a pathetic attempt to establish a line of descent. That's the best an unbeliever can do, and unbelievers cling to this explanation for dear life.

A wise parent will teach their children beforehand about the Theory of Evolution so as to be prepared for the battle ahead, a war over heart, mind, and soul.

Without belief in God there really isn't any other way to explain how molecules arranged themselves into plankton and on to parakeets. As a parent I know I'll teach my child "what they sadly believe" and justly ridicule such foolish thinking, for the fool hath said in his heart there is no God.

A person strong in their faith need not fear the fairy tales of abiogenesis and Darwin's drivel. The student need only know "this is what the unbeliever believes in" and continue to do good science ignoring the bogus Theory but prepared to give an answer for the hope the believer has, and especially why one believes in God instead of not believing.

The time is soon coming to an end when one can sit on the fence dallying on whether to choose Christ or not. Choose today whom you will serve.

43 posted on 08/24/2008 4:05:54 PM PDT by figetyfiggs
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To: figetyfiggs

Excellent post. Especially that last line. But I see no reason why we should turn over our public schools to Darwin’s fairytale. I would be perfectly fine with both sides being taught, but when one is taught to the exclusion of the other, and I am forced to pay for it...watch out!


44 posted on 08/24/2008 4:12:12 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

If the type III secretion system devolved from the flagellum, why are there still flagella?


45 posted on 08/24/2008 4:16:07 PM PDT by js1138
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To: js1138

Why do you keep posting to me, JS? The mods have told us to keep apart. Can’t you find anyone else to talk to?


46 posted on 08/24/2008 4:17:40 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

No.


47 posted on 08/24/2008 4:25:27 PM PDT by From many - one.
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To: GodGunsGuts
Since the Temple of Darwin relies on force to stifle debate, force will be required to reopen the debate. But I must admit, I rather enjoy the thought of you being constantly plagued by your worst fears as this process unfolds.

Are you going to use traditional methods to force your theocracy, pitchforks and torches, or are you going to emulate your major competitors and go straight to beheadings?

48 posted on 08/24/2008 4:26:09 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: Coyoteman

Jokes aside, it looks like the best bet to get evilution out of text books is in the power of Texas to influence content. That worked for almost fifty years.


49 posted on 08/24/2008 4:30:42 PM PDT by js1138
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To: FFranco

How do you come up with that figure?


50 posted on 08/24/2008 4:31:05 PM PDT by guitarplayer1953 (Psalm 83:1-8 is on the horizon.)
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To: From many - one.

As a matter of curiosity, how do you promote open, inquiring minds versus closed ones in lock-step with the text book?


51 posted on 08/24/2008 4:31:12 PM PDT by elpadre (nation)
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To: Coyoteman

==Are you going to use traditional methods to force your theocracy, pitchforks and torches, or are you going to emulate your major competitors and go straight to beheadings?

Which one will cause you to lose more sleep?


52 posted on 08/24/2008 4:31:29 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: From many - one.

==No.

You would have been all for the persecution of Barbara McClintock all the way up until her research could no longer be resisted. Typical Darwiniac.


53 posted on 08/24/2008 4:34:14 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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Why do you keep posting to me, JS? The mods have told us to keep apart. Can’t you find anyone else to talk to?

I think that was a different thread on a different topic. I think we were discussing whether the price of gold would reach $1650 this summer.

But it's naughty of you to bring up old threads. That's against the rules.

54 posted on 08/24/2008 4:34:59 PM PDT by js1138
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To: metmom; DaveLoneRanger; betty boop; Alamo-Girl; MrB; GourmetDan; BlueDragon; AndrewC; tpanther

Sorry, I orginally pinged you guys, but for some reason the ping only went out to one screenname. Very strange. At any rate, consider this a “take-two” ping.


55 posted on 08/24/2008 4:37:29 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: elpadre

High School through college:

> Having them read Obedience to Authority.

> seminars on small controversies within the field, after the basic courses

> research projects where the result will not be blindingly obvious at the outset

> labs showing the limitations of observation, the role of pre-conceptions in perception etc.

> especially in elementary school and high school...not calling demonstrations experiments.


56 posted on 08/24/2008 4:42:26 PM PDT by From many - one.
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You would have been all for the persecution of Barbara McClintock all the way up until her research could no longer be resisted. Typical Darwiniac.

During the 1940s and 1950s, McClintock discovered transposition and used it to show how genes are responsible for turning physical characteristics on or off. She developed theories to explain the repression or expression of genetic information from one generation of maize plants to the next. Encountering skepticism of her research and its implications, she stopped publishing her data in 1953. Later, she made an extensive study of the cytogenetics and ethnobotany of maize races from South America. McClintock’s research became well understood in the 1960s and 1970s, as researchers demonstrated the mechanisms of genetic change and genetic regulation that she had demonstrated in her maize research in the 1940s and 1950s. Awards and recognition of her contributions to the field followed, including the Nobel Prize, awarded to her in 1983 for the discovery of genetic transposition; to date, she has been the first and only woman to receive an unshared Nobel Prize in that category.


57 posted on 08/24/2008 4:45:46 PM PDT by js1138
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To: GodGunsGuts
We had this argument in Rio Rancho, NM, a few years back.

Here is a little background.

The actual policy is written to allow discussion in the classroom, which apparently wasn't the case prior to the policy's enactment.

I was at the school board meeting where this was "discussed," and it's a good thing we had a large, off-duty LEO present (along with some uniformed officers, as the meeting place was right across the street from the PD HQ).

58 posted on 08/24/2008 4:52:56 PM PDT by Disambiguator
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To: FFranco
This is a reasonable position. (Which is why some may have a problem with it.)

I think the reason most have a problem with it can be found in the first sentence of the last paragragh of the column:

When the bell rang, he knew that he had not convinced Bryce, and perhaps many of the others.

To expect the kids to understand the theory is reasonable, and practical. However, it sounds as though that isn't really what this is all about.

59 posted on 08/24/2008 4:54:04 PM PDT by Balding_Eagle (OVERPRODUCTION......... one of the top five worries for American farmers.)
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To: js1138
No, we were discussing the growing number of scientists and medical doctors who challenge the idea that HIV causes AIDS. When all of your homosexual/AIDS publications failed to dissuade me from posting articles on scientist who disagree with the current HIV/AIDS hypothesis, you started a backdoor (pun intended) campaign encouraging other FReepers to go to Jim Robinson to get me banned. Then you deliberately turned several of my threads into flamefests, thus getting them pulled. That's when we were warned by the mods to stay away from each other, which suits me fine.
60 posted on 08/24/2008 4:54:19 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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