Posted on 08/01/2008 7:45:45 AM PDT by tobyhill
Boy do I remember that! One tankful and my VW Rabbit’s engine was a mess.
It got my boat. #$@Q#$% ethenol.
As you wre, then—so long as someone claims everything is hunky-f’n-doree, others must be wrong—sos!
On the other hand, I routinely run gas with 10% ethanol in my modern outboards, lawn mowers and chain saws without a problem.
I'll also add that I have seen many old outboard that have been unused for 20 to 30 years with rotten gas lines and rubber gaskets. Because they had been unused for so long they had never seen ethanol. The rotten rubber was from old age.
I have a craftman riding lawnmower that got to the point it wouldn’t run. I removed the fuel line to get to the carb and I realize little fuel was coming out of the rubber line. I took it off and soon realize the inside was shredding and blocking the line.
The Carb was blocked as well until I fixed it. The lawnmower is only three years old.
It’s not a good idea to advise people to repeatedly run their engines out of fuel, especially 2 cycles with mixed fuel.
The reason for that is, when an engine becomes fuel starved, it increases exhaust gas temperatures dramatically and also brings cylinder head temps up to critical ranges due to the extreme leaned condition of the fuel air mixture.
Particularly in 2 cycles, leaning the engine this way greatly reduces the engines only way to lubricate itself, in addition to the much higher EGT. Repeated use of this practice is a guarantee of severe engine damage, regardless of the fuel.
Running them dry doesn’t run them dry; what happens is that there is a small sediment reservoir at the bottom of the carb float bowl that still holds a small amount of gas and dirt, moisture and it is what will deteriorate rapidly and form harmful deposits.
When the tank is refilled this sediment is stirred up and pulled into the main metering jet, an orifice about the size of a hair, which then will starve the engine for gas.
If water is present its tension is such that the action of the piston is insufficient to draw it through the hole and allow the gas above it entry.
Ironically the quick cure for this (very small amounts of water only) is to pour about an ounce of propylene alcohol into the tank to break the surface tension of the water.
Always keep the tank full of fresh available fuel.
I work on a lot of these engines. Two stroke engines have a problem depending on the oil you use. Your probably better off just to use regular motor oil as a lubricant or avoid ethanol. Also, never let the gas sit in the unit as other’s have said. Myself, I avoid ethanol for 2 strokes...
And never, never put it in your ultralight aircraft.
Absolutely correct. I usually get a higher octane fuel when I start engines that have sat over the winter. This brings the octane back up to the recommended level so the engine runs cooler.
Keep your tanks full over the winter. This reduces octane loses even further and there is no need to drain the system beforehand. 2 cycles will have oil separation, so be sure to stir the tank first. This is why many complain that they won’t start if left sitting for a long period. A heavy dose of mostly oil is drawn into the carb immediately when starting.
As far as the argument of ethanol solidifying in the tank or leaving deposits, that is false. It cuts any scale or varnish deposits in the fuel system that were there from letting the system dry out repeatedly. (Benzene residue, found in all gasoline) Ethanol is not the culprit. In fact, most varnish thinner/solvent is ethyl alcohol.
I think this particular craftsman saw is made by Poulan.
Yep! And this Craftsman Saw is old enough for that to be the underlying reason for its disintegration.
I have, OTOH, burned up a lot of string trimmers over the years, and I am now suspecting the ethanol as the reason for that.
Since ethanol will mix with and absorb water, it’s recommended to store your boat with a full tank to reduce the amount of water vapor that can enter the tank.
Once I started using fuel stabilizers in the two stroke motorcycles and boat outboards full time the gunk went away, ethanol or not. I have doubled the dose now which is the same idea in the more concentrated "Stabil Marine". Pri-G works also and possibly SeaFoam.
Only nagging concerns I have are certain diaphragms. But I would be very surprised if the "up-to-E10" blends our state currently uses would be deleterious to the diaphragms, especially with part-time contact. No fiberglass fuel tanks or cork floats here to worry about.
I am going to cut out a short section of the oldest fuel line I have and leave it sitting in an ethanol blend all winter just to see what happens (I don't expect much). It is easy to verify you have an ethanol blend with a water absorption test.
Use motor oil as a two stroke premix?
I hope you carry lots of liability.
Not any more, just the opposite is true.
Shaking the powerhead violently will usually remix the oil/gas; removing the sparkplug and squirting in a thin spray of WD-40 before closing the choke valve and pulling the rope does wonders, too.
That’s not what the manufacture of both my boat (Grady-White) and motor (Yamaha) said. This is my third season following their advice.
If you don't take care of your 2 cycle, it won't last and most of the trouble I've had is carburetor varnish and fouled plugs. I can't think of any reason for a 2 cycle to burn a piston except low oil/fuel mix. The only way that happens is too lean or forgot to mix in the first place. A Lean 2 cycle runs REAL good, until it breaks. Adjust your needles until it runs the best and back off about a quarter.
I would be interested in straight ethanol fuel mixed with oil used in a 2 cycle. Maybe someone out there has done it in a racing bike or something? My bet would be it would run fine with the proper jetting and WOULDN'T FORM VARNISH IF NOT USED. My rum is quite old with no "floaties" and I have some 190 proof from decades ago in my stash that is clear as a bell. Try putting gasoline in a bottle for a year or two and see what happens.
The first thing I do with a dead mower or weedeater is smell the tank. I've taken he float bowl off a lawnmower before and the float was stuck like it had been sprayed with glue. I use a spray chemical to clean the stuff, but I think it might be freon based so I better not name it here. I think WD40 works to clean it( doesn't it do everything?) maybe even rubbing alcohol( I can't remember). Otherwise it's wire brush time and you can't get into those nooks and crannies with that. Also if you don't do a soak and wash, you may remove the float bowl later and still find "floaties" messin up the needle valve sticking. I just don't believe E10 make ANY difference. We don't have E85 where I live so I can't comment. Come to think of it we used E10 wayyy back in the '70s and ''80's before MTBE and I don't remember problems worse than usual then. I think we have had years of experience with E10 with no ill effect. StaBil works and I think I would use it in my 2 cycle can and outboard tanks even if I wasn't planning to leave it dormant for awhile. Sorta like insurance.
I can't speak for an inboard 4 cycle boat with a tank coated with plastic or Styrofoam floats. I think Styrofoam melts even with gas. Get a coffee cup and put some gas in it and report back. Maybe they are confusing styrofoam with cork or some other man made thing.
As a side note, ethanol does attract water is why they use it to REMOVE water from tanks, but most of the rust I've seen came from the vessel people use to FILL their tank or the gas station itself. If you have enough water in your tank to mess things up, it's most likely NOT from condensation unless you fill your tank in the rain.
I agree with your points. I was shocked a few months ago when I did the water absorbtion test in a test tube at how much water “disappeared” in that little sample I had.
I don’t ride my motorcycles that much but my 80’s two cycles still have the original rings with plenty of compression. Four cycles also, for that matter.
The alcohol two strokes used in hillclimbing do use premix, of course (usually castor, I think), but the alcohol is methanol isn’t it? I’m pretty sure the alcohol four stroke racing karts and dragsters are methanol also. I’ve always steered clear of that stuff due to the invisible fires (although it seems safe in karting). All those alcohol classes do flush out the system after use, usually with gasoline.
I store gasoline for emergency purposes and that is the main reason I am so ticked off about the E-10. It does absorb water in the beginning but then unpredictably dumps it, generally at the worst time. There is no known way to prevent this from what I understand.
Our riding mower starting limping quite a bit. Had a mechanic friend fix it. Bottom line is ethanol gas ate at some parts.
We're going to REAL gas now instead of that ethanol crap.
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