What's wrong with science as religion

Salon.com ^ | 31 Jul 08 | Karl Giberson

[SnakeDoctor]

>>> You’re seriously suggesting that there may be NO answer to the question “how did we get here?”

>> You are willing to accept that one thing always existed, but not another thing. You are intellectually conflicted.

I indicated no such conflict ... I specifically noted that I did not know the origins of God.

Secondly, I also noted specifically that I believe that there exist multiple truths of existence which are simply beyond the capability of the human mind — perhaps the origins of the Almighty are among those. My belief system does not claim to be bound by limited human cognitive ability ... so I can therefore freely admit that there are certain truths which I will never be able to adequately explain.

H

[Soliton]

I believe that there exist multiple truths of existence which are simply beyond the capability of the human mind

Your mind, not mine

[hosepipe]

[ "Man is not the measure of God." ]

I do wonder if God even has need of gender..
Men certainly do need gender, physically.. but not spiritually..
But God would have no need of that, I believe..

Could be its the test of the flesh, that is, the need for gender..
Some/most humans glory in their gender, depend on it for identity..
Without gender they would be set adrift in a sea with no power..
I wonder if the human spirit needs gender..

A great spiritual test may be separation from gender..
Not ignoring it, but separation of identity from it..
Could be that "men is not the measure of man either"..
Men might be spirit as God is Spirit..

If so, what would the spirit/Spirit have need of gender?..
Needful for human bodies but irrelevant for the spirit, maybe..
Robbed of gender, would that be such a grievous thing?..
Or separated from gender would that be a glorious FREEDOM?..

Indeed, AG's question(supposition) precipitates wonderful possibilities..
I love that girl...

[SnakeDoctor]

>>> I believe that there exist multiple truths of existence which are simply beyond the capability of the human mind

>> Your mind, not mine

Truly brilliant men know their limits. Truly arrogant men think they have none.

Consider the possibility that your limitless faith in yourself may be misplaced.

H

[Soliton]

You’re the one operating on faith. I require evidence.

[SnakeDoctor]

>> I require evidence.

And you fail to realize that there may exist truths for which there is no evidence, and there may exist evidence which you are simply incapable of understanding.

H

[Soliton]

And you fail to realize that there may exist truths for which there is no evidence,

Prove it

[TChris]

Religion is dangerous, he wrote; it breeds hatred and idiocy.

I'm endlessly amused at the unbridled arrogance with which some scientists criticize religion, when they are so obviously unqualified to comment on the subject.

Lumping the huge diversity of all religion into one, then laying the blame for the worst behaviors of the worth of them onto that all-inclusive lump is absurdly lazy and dishonest.

Such "arguments", and I'm being generous in that description, certainly do nothing to enhance a reader's confidence in the author's capacity for objective reasoning.

[SnakeDoctor]

My faith does not require proof. I view your demand for “proof” in questions which are inherently beyond proof as shortsighted and arrogant.

What you view as a strength — your self-aggrandizing demand for proof — I view as a weakness — arrogance, pride, self-superiority. I worship something higher than myself. You know nothing outside of your own 5-senses.

You may have couched your beliefs in the false trappings of logic and reason, but, ultimately, you worship yourself. You’re nothing more than a hedonist humanist couched in a self-superior sense of “logic”. Its really pretty pitiful.

I’m pretty well done with this discussion.

H

[Soliton]

I worship something higher than myself

You worship nothing, emptiness, Santa Claus.

[SnakeDoctor]

>> You worship nothing, emptiness, Santa Claus.

Prove it.

H

[JamesP81]

In other words, he worships science which is ultimately a construct of Man.

[Soliton]

In other words, he worships science which is ultimately a construct of Man.

I worship nothing. I appreciate truth. Science is the only way of knowing truth.

[JamesP81]

I read at a second semester 12th grade level in first grade (ARE).

It took me until 3rd grade to read at a high school senior level, but that didn't make me incapable of faith.

[Soliton]

It took me until 3rd grade to read at a high school senior level, but that didn't make me incapable of faith.

How can you accept something as true based on a guess?doen't you ever wonder what your faith would be if you were born in Saudi Arabia or India? Muslims and Hindus are just as sure of their religions. You can't all be right.

[JamesP81]

All men worship something whether they believe they do or not. You clearly have a very high opinion of yourself since you think that there is no truth that is unknowable.

Such arrogance would normally be astounding, but I've seen enough of it lately that it no longer surprises me.

[Soliton]

You clearly have a very high opinion of yourself since you think that there is no truth that is unknowable.

Provide an example of an unknowable truth please.

[JamesP81]

How can you accept something as true based on a guess?

It's actually not a guess. When one has a personal encounter with the Creator of the universe there's no guess work about it. Nonetheless, this is something I could never prove to you and, even if I could, you still would not believe it. The Bible says as such in Luke 16:19-31 if you're interested. Even if someone were to rise from the dead, there are those who would not believe it.

doen't you ever wonder what your faith would be if you were born in Saudi Arabia or India?

The thought crossed my mind. Thank God I was born in the US.

Muslims and Hindus are just as sure of their religions. You can't all be right.

Absolutely correct. Someone is wrong. In fact, the majority of humanity is wrong. Wide is the path to destruction and many find it, but narrow is the gate to salvation and few enter through it.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you oh so very much for your encouragements, dear brother in Christ!

Truly, it is as you say, once a person accepts that "man is not the measure of God" he is free from the entanglements of all sorts of Scriptural rationalizations.

For my thoughts [are] not your thoughts, neither [are] your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. – Isaiah 55:8-9

And of course, please feel free to use the truism any way you wish!

To God be the glory, not man, never man.

[Soliton]

The thought crossed my mind. Thank God I was born in the US.

In other words, you are a Christian by an accident of birth.