Was Obama's "Certificate of Birth" manufactured?

Blogtownhall ^ | 6/20/08 | Polark

[muawiyah]

Look here, you started your thread with "Do you have a stock answer for everything or are you getting them from the fight the smears webmasters?" and then began a line of argument that clearly suggested I wasn't a good Republican or Conservative.

That's an insult where I come from. That's why you're a troll, and a drooling troll at that (probably from DU itself ~ a place where the top posters are those who can use "mouth breather" more times in a given paragraph.

We know your kind eh.

[muawiyah]

There’s stuff on the back.

[NathanR]

All the analysis proves is that this Certification of Live Birth is computer generated, not that it is not an official document. See below, from an official Hawaiian State Department, Department of Hawaiian Homelands, which knows the difference between a Birth Certificate and a Birth Certification:

http://hawaii.gov/dhhl/applicants/appforms/applyhhl

“In order to process your application, DHHL utilizes information that is found only on the original Certificate of Live Birth, which is either black or green. This is a more complete record of your birth than the Certification of Live Birth (a computer-generated printout). Submitting the original Certificate of Live Birth will save you time and money since the computer-generated Certification requires additional verification by DHHL”

What Obama provided was his Birth Certification.

[Always Right]

Apparently a date stamp leaked through, but the signature did not. But then again, we can’t see the stuff on the other side, so again this image prove nothing.

[Always Right]

What Obama provided was his Birth Certification.

And I for one am interested on the additional information on the certificate, even if this certification is valid, which I still have some doubts on.

[pissant]

The author understands that it is a computer generated and printed certification, and that such documents are what Hawaii uses. His analysis is that this one is a FAKE certification that has been manipulated.

[muawiyah]

Yet, we do have a chance to go to the “source” which is the state of Hawaii. That’s why this is far from being a Dan Rather moment.

[Always Right]

Yet, we do have a chance to go to the “source” which is the state of Hawaii.

But unless you are asking for your own record, they would tell you to go fly a kite.

[NathanR]

I would like to see the real information too. However, this seems to be a “Kerry” moment, other than a “Rather” moment

[x]

Another HUGE blunder. In 1961 “African” was not a “race”. His father would have been listed as “black”, possibly “Negro” and maybe even “colored”. The person who reproduces them at request DOES NOT change any data for political correctness as that would be falsifying official government documents.

You are probably right about other states where the White-Negro color line was well established, but it could be that the registrar in Honolulu hadn't seen that many African-American children.

And remember, this was all before the federal government's racial classifications came in. In Hawaii, Chinese, Japanese, Native Hawaiians, Filipinos, and possibly even Portuguese all considered themselves separate groups. So you'd want to go back and look at different birth certificates issued at the time to see how they handled this.

Think back to 1961. If you heard that your new neighbor was an "African" you might have reacted differently than you would have if you were told that he was a Negro or black or colored, so I think it was probably natural that the family would want Barack Sr. categorized in such a way.

[usmcobra]

Yes, yes, yes, I know.....

Good conservatives don't question their opponents.

Good conservative believe everything they are told,

Good conservatives never ever ever have a bad thing to say about the loyal opposition.

Well do you have a stock answer that seems to come directly from Stop the smears or don't you?

So far you have done a better job of debunking the analysis put forward then any of the democrats have, Hell they might as well hire you to be their official Obama GOP Spokesperson seeing as you are such a great conservative and republican and all that and I am just a lowly troll....

I want you to read this carefully....

Vital records (birth, death, marriage, and divorce certificates) on file with the Department of Health may be amended (i.e., changes, corrections, additions, deletions, or substitutions) upon submission of the required documentation.

Who is eligible to apply and how to apply for an amendment?

Amended certificates of birth may be prepared and filed with the Department of Health, as provided by law, for 1) a person born in Hawaii who already has a birth certificate filed with the Department of Health or 2) a person born in a foreign country.

• Who is eligible to apply and how to apply for an amended certificate of birth?

Late registration, registration one year or more after the date of the event’s occurrence, of certificates are permitted subject to evidentiary requirements.

In other words the state of Hawaii is perfectly willing to issue amended Birth Certificates to persons born in another country.

Now I realize that I a lowly troll and de facto scum sucking dog of the universe according to The Most righteous and Highly benevolent good conservatives and stanch republicans on this board should not even be allowed to dare to ask the question about Barack (The anointed Holy one Light weaver and 12th Iman of islam) HUSSEIN Obama, but I shall do so at the risk of my immortal soul....

Knowing now that Hawaii according to their own website can and will do such a thing, is it permissible with you that we question weather or not Obama's Original birth certificate has been amended and if so what has been changed and why?

That is all we really want to know.....

[Always Right]

I would like to see the real information too. However, this seems to be a “Kerry” moment, other than a “Rather” moment.

A good analogy. There may be something there, but the chances of it seeing daylight are slim. It would probably take some kind of dirty trick to get Obama's birth certificate. I suspect that is something on it he does not want to reveal. What is on it? Name, date and time of birth, weight, height, sex, parents names, perhaps religion of parents, perhaps marital status of parents, hospital, doctor's name.

[muawiyah]

You are reading that particular regulation very, very narrowly.

BTW, the operative statement has to do with "on file with", which means, quite literally, that the actual birth certificate is "on file with" whoever it is in Hawaii who keeps the files.

If they have a crappy system now and a crapier one in the past, I seriously doubt we would be able to get any closer to proving/disproving that Obama was born there than we are now.

At least for a while in his life his mother and grandparents would have made record of his existence, and when it comes to genealogy that's usually considered good enough.

BTW, if that's all you have State Department has procedures available for you to follow to prove you are who you say you are. If Obama has a real problem he can work that out with Condy I'm sure.

[muawiyah]

At most it's a Kerry moment, but not even a very good Kerry moment. We can actually get the folks in Hawaii to give us the information they have on file if we smile, give them a tip (or maybe not), and follow the procedures that allow us to get the information.

At the same time we can certainly have access to the blank form currently in use to see what is possible (which may well be different than what is required to be given).

Remember, every blank spot on a blank form doesn't mean somebody has to fill it in.

[NathanR]

Unfortunately, one of the steps is to prove you are the person named on the certificate. That is one reason it is a John Kerry moment.

[Aurorales]

I have not read this complete thread, so if it is addressed somewhere else, I’m sorry.
I have also stated this on another thread, same topic.

I have (i was born in hawaii in 1968) a birth certificate from Hawaii....1968.
No where on the certificate does it state or have a section for “nationality or race”.
I believe they did not ask or care for race of baby in Hawaii in the 60’s.
Also, there is alot more info on my BC then is on this document.
Birth state of parents, doctor who assisted, address of parents, age of parents, and there is a specific section which asks if father is active member of armed forces?

My son has a 1988 Hawaii BC and is asks the same questions.
Wouldn’t this document which is a replacement for a Certification of Birth have all the same info?

I don’t buy it.

[muawiyah]

BTW, when it comes to Obamasama's positions, I've listened to every Q&A session he's been in. Guy is a lightweight.

Other's tell me he's pretty good at delivering a speech, but speeches are drivel and dross ~ anybody can give a politician a good idea within the framework of a speech, but can he remember it?

I strongly suspect Obamasama has to be coached repeatedly to make an appearance in a courtroom - probably why he's not a trial attorney - just a flunky for a nonprofit lobbying operation.

Regarding any of his websites, he can't read them himself so why should I.

Give it up. The question about the birth certificates leads to nothing. He has American grandparents and an American momma. He got born. By public reputation and his grandmother's if no one else's memory he was born in the United States when he said he was born.

There's more to be gained by addressing the Canadian birth of Chester A Arthur.

[muawiyah]

But, is your birth certificate on file with the appropriate office in Hawaii? If it’s not, and you are walking around with it you could be effectively challenged by ICE and returned to your native country.

[JLS]

Let’s see:

1. I was making the same point as you to doubt the .JPEG. That is that using African for a black man’s race was unlikely in 1961. A government document would have very likely have said Negro as I suggested. As for your comment about what people might have said at the time, that has nothing to do with government documents that would not have included a slur. Now possibly the answer is there were not many blacks in Hawaii back so government officials were not familiar with the official terminology of the period or possibly the foreign parents race was listed by where they were from?

2. I still have asked a question about a document based on termnology. That has not been answered and you have not provided a link where it has been. BTW, it is not really your job to tell us all what to talk about.

3. No one that I have seen has testified that they have seen an official Hawaii birth certificate circa 1961 and it looks like this one.

I personally have plenty of reasons to vote against Obama, but I still find it odd the Obama campaign did not respond to this little kerfuffle by releasing his birth certificate?