Posted on 05/09/2008 10:07:16 AM PDT by dangerdoc
the mileage of the vehicle is difficult to describe with one number.
True. So why not give us two numbers: MPG and miles/kWatt. It's not difficult:
Drive the car on battery power only until it stops. Fill the gas tank. This is the starting point. Do not plug the vehicle in and run several tanks from full to near empty over a typical driving profile. After enough miles to get a good statistical average, shutoff the fuel and drive the car on the built up battery charge until it stops. Fill the tank. This is the end of the test. Divide the total miles by the total gallons of gas. This should give a close estimate of MPG.
Then do a similar test running on batteries only, keeping track of the kWatts. Then do a combined test to account for efficiencies of dual mode which will bump both numbers up a little I would guess.
The quoting of other numbers is misleading. They do it to grab headlines. Consumers should demand they be explicit about MPG and Miles/kWatt, capacities of each, and total range. It's the only way to do an objective comparison.
But I guess marketing hype isn't about objectivity.
My guess, and forgive me if I'm wrong, is that you are ready to condemn them, having read only what was on FR, without going to their website to read the full story.
If you read their website, I think you will see they give a fair and objective presentation of the probable capabilities of their vehicle.
Note I say probable: as they readily admit on their website they are dealing with prototypes at this stage - ie: beta test version if you are into software.
Check them out....you might be plesantly suprised at their objectivity.
The car is simply called “1-litre-car”. You can read about it at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_1-litre_car.
I read some German articles about it and it really seems VW wants to bring these on the market in 2010. Unbelievable! The car they build probably won’t be that similiar to this prototype as they said that the car will use below 2 litres per 100 km. This prototype used below 1 litre per 100 km in 2002 and technology surely advanced since then.
A better method would be to start the test with a full tank of gas and batteries exactly half charged. THen end the test when the tank is dry and the batteries are exacly half charged. I don’t know how you accurately determine “half charged” though.
The reason I say this is better is that a hybrid gets it’s fuel economy by switching back and forth between gas and electric depending on driving conditions. If you start the test with ZERO battery power available, you are killing the hybrid effect and hamstringing the car’s max potential efficiency in the earlier miles in the test.
True, but prototypes don’t have to meet a practical price range. They will cut costs in the production version by useing less impressive materials and more of the traditional heavier materieals. THat will require a more powerful engine, and will hurt economy.
This is my hunch anyway.
I think the eventual place for vehicles like this will be as a tactical second car. I drive a pick up because I have to do work around the house, etc and need to be able to move furniture, sheet rock and other equipment. However, it gets around 16 mpg in town. Driving to work or the store doesn't require me to hit highways, but the economics of having a second vehicle that gets 30 mpg for the short trips isn't there. That's why most people have bigger vehicles. The person who drives an Expedition to work alone probably also uses it to transport the entire family several times a week. If gas hits $6 per gallon, you'll start seeing more "tactical" vehicles. When gas was fairly cheap, it made more sense to have one vehicle that did a lot of things.
The economy of having one vehicle that does multiple things but gets lesser mileage exceeds the economy of having an extra vehicle that is only for short commuter hops but gets great mileage. Automakers, though, continue to price vehicles as if they will be the only transportation system for a person. Mopeds and motorcycles require skills that a lot of people don't have, and expose the individual to the elements, so they have limited applicability (also, many motorcycles don't get THAT much better mileage than a small car.)
When you'll see these vehicles take off is at the point that they get something in the $3-4K range that gets around 60 mpg, can transport two people and a few bags of groceries, and protect them from the weather. In small towns, I'm already seeing people use their golf carts to go to the store and drive around. My college runs a shuttle bus on campus, and they replaced the large van with an electric shuttle that's like a golf cart with twenty seats.
I've known several people with Hybrids, and none of them have gotten over the mid-thirties in gas mileage. Maybe some people do, but I haven't talked to any of them. Also, the Honda Civic Hybrid compared to the regular Civic, requires around 200,000 miles to recover the initial price disparity, that's assuming the batteries don't have to be replaced. The VW Beetle Diesel I had got a legitimate 45 mpg and could cruise at over 100 mph (didn't get 45 mpg at that speed, but got 45 at 70 on the highway.) I think the diesels are being overlooked because they're too practical. True Greenies want some pie in the sky thing that nobody's ever thought of. For the Greens to accept something, it has to require massive initial cash infusions, use solar or wind power, take at least 40 years to recover initial investment, and have a life span of around fifteen years.
This Prius owner gets 51, or 55 mpg if I try hard.
The only time I ever get lower (maybe the mid-40s) is if I have 5 people in the car with the a/c on and I'm driving faster than usual.
“I heard it may need to be registered as a motorcycle.”
I saw one of those three wheeled motorcycles in Boulder the other day. It’s a crotch-rocket with two wheels in the front. Very strange.
Maybe the best test would start and end with the battery fully charged by the engine only.
As far as I know, there is no such thing as a plug in hybrid right now. When they hit the market, the EPA will require them to follow a prescribed testing method and post the numbers for comparison. It may not be accurate but it will be consistent between brands.
Until there is a product, there is no purpose in getting bent out of shape.
My wife drives a hybrid 4wd SUV. She gets an honest 31 mpg, Her previous car was a similar SUV that got 14 mpg. Based on the miles she drives, the gasoline savings are making her car payment.
As far a diesels go, to get the high miliage smooth running euro engines, you need to use ultralow sulfur so the sensors work. Expect them after the full transition to low sulfur diesel.
Of course, I paid $4.49 for diesel yesterday which takes some of the economy away.
no a brick is much more aerodynamic
oh, and also, right in the first para, first sentence:
“Although you can definitely pre-order an Aptera if you’re okay with space-aged design, Volkswagen is hoping to provide another option for those looking for ridiculous MPG and a little bit of normalcy in construction. Okay, so maybe the 1-Liter isn’t exactly standard fare -”
that’s why I said 1 liter
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