Posted on 04/24/2008 11:48:06 AM PDT by greyfoxx39
The hearing the other day, giving temporary custody of the children to the state and allowing placement in foster homes was a farce. It may be a logistical nightmare but the court has to give each parent and child an appropriate “day in court”. I have seen cattle auctions with more due process than what occurred the other day.
I’ve decided I want a new kid. D’ya think Texas’ll let me drop down there and just choose one?
That mumbo-jumbo about legal custody is just so silly....
Just because the State declares something legal or illegal does not, IMO, carry moral weight, not that I don't respect the law, which I do.
My plea is for a single moral standard, even here on FR. For example, we recently had a story posted here about a Yale student who said that she was using her own abortions as ‘performance art’.
The last time I looked, that outrage drew about 110 replies. A single article on the FLDS mess drew over 500 posts.
We hardly take time to comment, let alone complain loudly to anyone in government, about the rampant and almost random copulation and conception going on in certain demographic groups. Yet, again, we are almost electrified by the FLDS mess. I would ask why? It seems clear to me that this sect is more easily repulsive to people for its religious beliefs.
The First Amendment prohibits any State agency from rendering an ecclesiastical opinion. To put that simply: government cannot decide religious issues nor can it interfere in determining church doctrines. The State is limited to passing laws that apply to everyone outside of matters of doctrine and faith.
But people who say what the FLDS has done is so horrible don't seem to care that some Indian Guru has a harem with lots of kids in a private compound somewhere in Oregon, as happened with the Bhagwan Sri Rashneesh.
Additionally, a lot of moral weight is given to the law, a weight it does not deserve especially given the circumstances under which Texas law allows the murder of the unborn. The law in other states allows a 14 year old girl to marry a 55 year old man. If these FLDS women were married in one of those states the issue of their relationship being “illegal” would go away. Yet the outrage would remain.
Just as important, the law decides issues of who is an adult and who is not. The law, that so many FReepers seem to hold in such high regard with respect to marriage of all things, determines that a person is competent to conduct their own affairs at a certain age. A lot of these mothers are above that age. And they certainly are above the age where the law gives them the right (backed up by the full armed force of the State) to decide the life and death issue of aborting their own child.
People who insist these women were "brainwashed" on the matters of how they should structure their personal lives are now defending seizure of children who will be placed in public schools and subjected to brainwashing as to how life began on earth, for the only origin that is legal to teach is evolution. Additionally, in such schools, they will be brainwashed that they sould "explore their sexuality" at a very early age, and that there are no moral absolutes. Because the classroom environment attempts to destroy religious and moral values, I would argue that the State fully engages in mass brainwashing that is far more destructive than took place in the FLDS.
I also would suggest that most of the outrage expressed here is due to how many people cannot stomach the teachings of Joseph Smith and has a lot less to do with how the FLDS members choose to live their family lives. Otherwise we would decry inner city feral males who have no belief in God almost as loudly, which is certainly not the case.
Hence my use of the term “logistical nightmare”. The Constitution does not say due process applies only when it is easy or simple. We are close enough to having the first “class action” child custody case as it is.
Those who post 'I'm sure the State knows what it is doing, their actions should not be questioned or examined'
The validity of the original search warrant is questionable. At this point, it appears that the original warrant was based upon a fraudulent claim made by a woman from Colorado Springs. Normally any information acquired on that basis will be tossed out unless the authorities acted in good faith. This implies that due diligence was applied in investigating the original complaint and that as a result of this, that there was probable cause that a crime had occurred. The fact that the call originated outside of the the state of Texas by someone claiming to be a young girl inside the compound does not pass the smell test for due diligence or good faith (are Texas officials to dumb to figure out that the area code was from Colorado Springs and not El Dorado, Texas?). The form of polygamy practiced by the FLDS is not illegal. Whether there are underage girls being forced to marry 50 year old men is a separate issue, although “Sarah” wasn’t forced to marry anyone because she never existed. The fact that our schools promote sexual experimentation at an early age serves to further obscure the cultural issues involved. Uprooting 400+ children from their parents under these circumstances is certainly troubling to me. This is a slippery slope folks. What will be next? Removing children from evangelicals because they teach their children that homosexuality is wrong. This reminds be a little bit of Waco, except that the FLDS have not made any threats to their neighbors, Think about the deep seated trauma being visited upon these children under the so called good intentions of protecting them. They will carry this wound with them for the rest of their lives. As for the hearings, I think it more likely that the mothers know exactly who their children are and they, their parents. They chose not to reveal that to the authorities.
Politicalmom: Please let me know how you think the children are going to benefit from all of this. Thanks in advance.
They are not polygamists in the legal sense. It is not that much different than say Hef’s stable at the playboy mansion. They are not legally married to more than one woman (the other so called wives are spiritual) so they are not polygamists in the legal sense.
I think not being raised as a baby incubator or being raised to be a rapist is a really good thing.
Over 30 underage pregnancies, and you think that’s peachy.
Nice.
How can the families appeal without the ability to prove that they are the family. We don’t know who the children are, some not having birth certificates. They’ve lied about their last names, their age and who their parents are.
IMO, the attorneys are going by the old maxim: "Throw everything at it and see what sticks."
Do you know of any other case of a state taking away children from their parents
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Who are the parents? What are the last names of the children? Can these “Parents” produce birth certificates or proof that the children are even theirs? How is the state supposed to unscramble these identity issues when the “parents” are not cooperating. Yes, maybe you’re right. Let all those claiming to be “parents” come to court and prove their case. In the meantime since we don’t know who the children belong to they will stay in state custody.
If all is above board and legal, why are the “parents” and children lying through their teeth?
Sounds like a whole lot of due process to me.
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Hey, not fair. you’re using facts and logic.
The hearing the other day, giving temporary custody of the children to the state and allowing placement in foster homes was a farce.
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Not a farce when you consider that there isn’t much proof that these children belong to those they have been living with. We don’t even know the last names of many of these children. We don’t even know when and where they were born or who their parents are. We don’t know which ones were given to different families by Jeffs and from which complex.
Who had any say in these musical chair games with the lives of the women and children? Look beyond the custody issue and you have to see wrecked lives of many boys, girls and wifes who have no chance in life unless they can sexually and financially benefit some horny and very evil old men.
I’m so ashamed.....
So if CPS show’s up and I cannot provide birth certificates, etc for my kids I am out of luck? No I will not look beyond anything. Until somebody shows up with proof of something. Actually I will not look past someone’s day in court.
I was instrumental in helping the Daily Thread by MysSterious get started. Your statement “the pro-CPS folks have set up a daily thread, and have asked ALL posters to not post these articles separately, but instead to put them in that thread.” is pure hogwash. A development such as this is worthy of a separate thread.
There is no way a single daily thread will suffice for all the activity that goes on in the situation at the current time. Hell if that is the case than why didn’t we have only a daily Hunter, Huckabee, Thompson, Romney, etc. etc. etc. for president threads instead of the multiple ones we had.
With multiple threads one can pick and choose which threads are of interest based upon titles, keywords, etc, But with a single thread one would have to read the entire thing to see what is going on...
JMO......
It does amaze me that some around here cannot differentiate between this “kiddie porn/bred for breeding/girls for sex farm” and the typical 16 year old girl that got pregnant by her 17 yr. old boyfriend in the hood! Let’s see:
Raping 13 yr old girls........against the law in Texas.
Polygamy......................against the law in Texas.
Transporting females across state line for sex...........................against the law in Texas.
And probably a whole lot of other ones too.
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