Posted on 04/13/2008 8:57:18 PM PDT by claudiustg
“If the mothers are allowing old men to have sex with their underage girls, they are aiding and abetting perversion. “
These ‘mothers’ were forced to marry and have sex, at a young age themselves.
They have been raised in this environment since the 1950’s, and told by their husbands and leaders that if they do not submit to this themselves, and allow any and all children to be submitted to it (forced rape), that GOD will send them TO HELL.
These women, and children, are traded ‘off’ to another husband, if they will not submit. If they are not loyal to the cause (FLDS). If they do not accept the PROPHET (Warren Jeffs).
Is is alledged, but unproven, that they just bury the rejects.
These women are being forced to watch and assist in raping of little girls, and they aren’t really sure who is the mother of these little girls, biologically.
These women have watched the government FAIL to even get a search warrant to compound property, until just recently.
These women are aiding and abetting, but only because they believe their salvation lies in loyalty, and they know the punishment for not being loyal to the cause.
As I said before, for them, It is HELL IF THEY DO, HELL IF THEY DON’T.
The women are not the criminals here. It’s men who pay for allegiance to their cult with little girls.
140 adult women left with the children.
“How about RICO for the lot of them (men and women)? I’ll wager many of the men go back and forth across state lines.”
Texas passed legislation to help deal with this cult, when the cult first started operating in Texas.
The cult will face much tougher legal challenges in Texas than they ever did in the past anywhere else.
I don’t know for sure how they are handling it, the only knowledge I have is media reports and posts here. I don’t really have enough information to know what authorities are doing and how they are doing it.
The only suggestion I have given as to how it should be handled is that all laws and procedures need to be followed, and the rights of these people should not be violated.
I keep saying this to you over and over and you don’t seem to understand or want to understand what I am saying and why I am saying it. I’m out of here- it is past my bedtime and you are not really interested in what I have to say.
A bill of attainder?
Well I'd want some real evidence, testimony of known witnesses at least, before taking action in the first place. I'd want open warrants (what purpose is served in this case by not opening the warrant?), based upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. An anonymous person on the telephone can't swear an oath or affirmation, although the identity of a known witness or informant can be kept secret for a time.
I can think of several technical solutions to the cell phone problem. Getting the cell company to block calls to or from certain numbers or locations for example. Or getting a court order, again supported by Oath or affirmation (or physical evidence at this point) to "tap" the cell phone. I prefer the latter, for one thing it could provide evidence of the crimes.
“We’re still waiting for the first arrest to come out of this. “
On the contrary. Warren Jeffs was arrested, convicted, and is serving time in a penitentiary. He was named as an accomplice.
The main perp got convicted as well.
Time passed, and the government, LEO’s were kept told to stay out of the FLDS compound, due to pressure from various affiliations of the MORMONS/RLDS, media, and politicians trying to keep their Mormon votes.
TIME went on.
Then came the 911 call.
The 911 caller has not been found.
The police had to evacuate the women and children to investigate and get evidence/testimony from these women and children, who are scared to death they will go to HELL if they tell the police anything.
That is why MORE arrests have not yet occurred.
You’re right.
I’ve rarely seen such a disconnect on Freep between people who so obviously see these people as pedophile monsters, just like Jim Jones, with no legitimacy whatsoever, where the children need to be rescued and kept from their brainwashing monsters that run this pedophile concentration camp.
Other Freepers, however, see them as misunderstood religionists who are being exploited by evil government agents who cannot understand their love of God and family, who wish these lovable but quirky families could be quickly reunited.
Ed
That's the way it must be done under our legal system. There are no group crimes, just as their no group rights. Individuals commit crimes and have rights. So you have to go after the guilty individuals, in a court of law.
The innocent, well last I looked they have rights too, and the cannot be punished just because they might sympathize with the (presumably) guilty.
Of course the "child" part of all this is probably a result of the violation of the first amendment rights of the early Mormons, thus causing the breakaway sects that then devolved into these "forced marriage" and "child bride" practices.
I don't like polygamy, and I don't think it produces a healthy society. But it probably should not be illegal, as long as it only involved consenting adults. Marriage is, or was, as much a religious matter as a legal one. It's not been that long since it was strictly a religious matter, at least as getting married. States did not even record marriages during the early years of the Republic, let alone require a "permit" or license.
What do you think, and why make those time consuming silly posts.
“Dropped a digit, there are 416 children who have been taken from their mothers.”
Correction. They have been taken out of an environment deemed dangerous to their wellbeing. In the hands of their mothers in the FLDS the children were NOT safe.
The children were removed under Texas administrative law, for protection of children.
All the women went voluntarily. I assume the Texas judge has legal authority to take away the cell phones, as a condition for them remaining voluntarily.
It is along the lines of the state protecting battered children (and women), from their abusers.
I guess the alternative would be that the state does NOT have authority to protect battered children and women?
It looks like Texas is doing what Utah and Arizona failed to do for over 50 years; namely break up this illegal organization.
Jeffs made a big strategic miscalculation thinking Texas would sit still.
Utah I understand, because of the tie back to traditional LDS times.
Arizona is stretched to administer the “strip” as it is called, north of the Grand Canyon. For Arizona authorities to get to the Utah/Arizona border takes several hours driving, or helicopters. IOW it is isolated from the rest of the state.
The twin towns were carefully established to allow the lawbreakers to quickly go across the state line.
“I don’t like polygamy, and I don’t think it produces a healthy society. But it probably should not be illegal, as long as it only involved consenting adults.”
My attention span is long enough that I can stay focused on the child rape right now.
“One of the stats thats truely stunning is that Warren Jeffs was married to over 150 women. Many of them became his wives as children in their young teens.”
And they have a commune type thing going where men practice polygamy, and new wives are brought into the ‘hearth’ at young ages.
Though the Mormons no longer practice polygamy, their splinter groups do.
The FLDS is one, and it splintered off from it’s other locations.
Warren Jeffs Declared himself the PROPHET, and took a core following with him to the compound where this stuff is going on.
This core, or splinter off a splinter, is a select set of loyal men, who add JEFFS to their last name.
Even the practice of polygamy includes the premise that a new young wife candidate must reach a certain age and maturity.
JEFFS allowed them to violate it, as he had, as his father had. It was how he kept them loyal.
He kept the women and children loyal by trading them like cattle, if they weren’t.
They don’t understand that sometimes a cigar is a cigar, good night.
But generally that's only if they *want* such protection. In this case it's pretty clear than many of them do not. They are adult citizens, how do you justify detaining them without charge? That's unconstitutional after a reasonable period at least. Art 1 Section 9, second paragraph, US Constitution):
The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.
Article 1 section 12, Texas Constitution:
The writ of habeas corpus is a writ of right, and shall never be suspended.
“They’d better start charging pretty soon. You’ve heard of Habeas Corpus, I’m sure, it’s in the Constitution. Without evidence, and formal charges, they can not be held for long.”
None of the women are being held against their will. They went voluntarily, according to the news. So Habeas Corpus is not an issue, counselor.
And the children can be held, under Texas administrative law, for their own protection from the dangerous environment, wherein they were subject to statutory rape.
Meantime:
“Authorities still have not located the girl, but continue to say they believe she is among the children in state custody. This weekend, the Texas Department of Public Safety acknowledged it may have named the wrong man in the original search and arrest warrant that triggered the raid of the FLDS enclave. “
http://origin.sltrib.com/faith/ci_8912521
That may be true, but they were still taken away from their mothers, were they not? Some or most of them anyway.
So an addition perhaps, but not a correction.
“The 911 caller has not been found.”
Or perhaps this person is being protected in such a manner that she can give information, without the press and other FLDS membersbeing all over her family.
Like a witness protection program? It would make a lot of sense for a brave 16 year old girl, willing to spill the beans on this criminal enterprise, hiding behind “religion.”
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