It all began with a correspondence class in locksmithing I took one winter...
Posted on 12/09/2007 12:49:26 PM PST by aomagrat
Edited on 12/09/2007 12:59:09 PM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]
Is that about some one that stabbed Rick's former abuser then committed suicide?
I think you have the right one, but it was my understanding that Rick stabbed the former alleged abusers then killed himself.
I think that was the person from the youth group that remembered him from 2002. He only made the connection to Murray after the events occurred.
My chronology could be off, but it was my impression that he heard the news about Arvada, made the comment, before the New Life shooting. I could certainly be wrong. Believe he is now in SA, so maybe there was a delay in the reporting, must have made the world news.
He described some behavior which would naively indicate the onset of schizophrenia, but I haven't seen much that indicates it was severe if present. There's no indication of blunted emotions I've seen. His problems apparently went critical when he was ~17, and was put on drugs
I read about Prozac, didn't know how many others were tried. It didn't strike me as classic schizophrenia as I have come to understand it, voices notwithstanding, but then I am not a professional.
That means he was severely introverted. The isolation I'm sure compounded t
The analysis in that whole paragraph I would tend to agree with.
He didn't know what love is and he didn't know who God was. At 17, he came to the conclusion that he wasn't "saved", which was also the time he notes, that he was given the drugs. At that point he definitely needed competent psychiatric help, not drugs, pastors praying over him, rummaging through his stuff, and a send off to Youth camp, a place where he was sure to be rejected and chastised.
For sure except I think he at least had an inkling of what love should be even if he was unable to respond to or feel it within himself. Believing he had lost his salvation really seemed to have tipped the scales, agreed, plus elsewhere he talks about the mark of the beast, being left behind, naming just about every pastor in that milieu, couldn't understand why so many different interpretations. The latter I don't find crazy at all. Who can? He didn't have the skills to go on his own personal journey, well he ended up doing that, didn't he? But I mean, the programming and spying. He wasn't able to find the right help, often the case. Fortunately most don't end up choosing this route, probably see more of it in the future, some will read those blogs, relate and think maybe it is cool.
Not everyone, but considering the environment he was in and attempted to be in, the rejection was inevitable and the help offered would have been worthless, because they were unable and unwilling to recognize what they had in front of them. He was a "sinner" foremost, in addition to being an unrecognized cripple.
Cripple pretty well nails it. Sinner? One of the mildest until near the end imo, then he lost all restraints, wouldn't even use bad language in his pain and anger until I read the final posts on usenet. That was his self-perception, probably had been drummed into him. We all are, of course, but that business can get overplayed. I used to read a catholic recovery group. That was a common element in the way *some* experienced it, tended to be the more sensitive, think-for-yourself types, but surely so with a lot of fundamentalist types. None of those that I know committed any atrocities. They took their anger (justifiable in many cases) and lashed out verbally against the church. That is just a for instance for illustrative purposes of damaged peoples' coping mechanisms, don't mean to single out any group in particular. It tends to show up in sects where legalisms and rules are employed.
Please before anyone takes offense, let me emphasize that these are a very small subset of the groups I used to try to make a point. Most seem quite comfortable where they are, and if they aren't, I wouldn't know it unless I knew them better.
But just as curious are the Amish with their lifestyle in the sense that their religious beliefs dominate their entire lives, not that I know how they handle sins or their theology, must be a lot of love there but also very strict, hard combo to get right. The strong sense of community and belonging would be a big plus there unless you are unfortunate enough to get shunned which I believe they employ. Never heard of one yet going off like this, sure some rebel at times.
"Thankfully, neither of us has to make that call."
That was already made, as per Luke 23:34.
Keep forgetting to ask . . . what’s your training/background in mental health, if I may ask?
Answer: Traffic snarls.
Our church is pretty hefty sized, though not as large as New Life. Every Sunday for 3 services, and every Saturday night for 2 services, there are uniformed police officers at the 2 exits onto the main road. They override the light signals to keep traffic flowing much more smoothly than it would otherwise. I assume our church has to pay the city for the officers' time.
In the parking lots are non-uniformed volunteer church members who direct traffic and give rides on an electric golf cart that seats 6 large adults.
This seems so obvious that I am wondering if there isn't some point to your question that I am missing?
Murray entered the church only after the uniformed LEOs left the campus.
PS: Guessing from the photos: do you live near "Byoo-na Vista" ("Bway-na Vista" for newcomers)?
Yup Buena Vista: byoo-nuh VIS-tuh I know it's hard to believe, but it's true - I understand the locals even passed a resolution stating that this is the official pronunciation of the town. Of course, the Spanish for "good view" would be more like bway-nuh VEES-tuh.
There's no group that could help. Murray needed an expert psychiatrist at ~17 and at points in the following years. His mind did not work right at 17 and it became worse. I'll try to explain. I'll use the word normal here to mean "proper for good working order, or function".
A normal mind is a rational machine that provides for the functions of rational thought. The machinery provides for the processing of senses and information in a rational fashion. That means information, such as experiences, and learning can be processed rationally. That doesn't mean it will end up being a coherent and rational assembly, because falsehoods could be evaluated as true, and since conscious thought requires adherence to logic, that has an effect also.
There's also emotion to consider. In a normal mind, rational processing should drive emotion. Another way to put that is, emotion should arise out of rational processing. Emotion should not drive the machinery of rational processing, because emotion is not a valid logical operation, nor is it a valid reference for truth. Emotion should always remain as response, not a drive.
A person's emotional state is called affect. Examples are happy, sad, depressed, angry, fearful, neutral, ect... Normally the affect should be neutral. The only time other affect should arise is as a response to rational processing, such as particular thoughts, or experiences. Happiness should arise if one is presented with a fragrant rose from a smiling child, ect...
There's 3 major common forms of debilitating psychosis. Those are bipolar, where alternate and inappropriate affects of sadness and happiness drive the rational machinery. That means the emotional state, which is inappropriate and constant, drives one's rational thoughts and overrides rational motivations. There's clinical depression, where inappropriate sadness is ever present and has the same effects as bipolar. Then there's schizophrenia, where the rational machinery of the mind is faulty. The analogy of that is a computer where the logic traces are bad. It wouldn't matter how well written the software was and the data good, the machine would always put out garbage results. Both schizophrenia and clinical depression have an underlying physical basis, but they can be caused.
Each one of those debilitating psychoses occurs with a range of severity. It can occur as subtle defects, or with remarkably prominent manifestations. In schizophrenia, the range of bad logic goes from outright delusions and hallucinations, to subtle occurrences of faulty logic, which is not at all do to conscious error, but to faulty machinery of mind. Also in schizophrenia, there's a relatively constant, variable level of inappropriate suspicion and fear, because those afflicted have a problem with identifying who they are and processing the input communicated from others. They also have problems expressing their thoughts. Blunting of emotions also occurs where the emotional response is inappropriately reduced, so if a child hands them a flower, no emotion arises.
Where the machinery of mind works normally, or approximates it, personal, or social interaction can result in correcting problems in content, values and behavior. Where the machinery doesn't work well, the machinery itself must be addressed, or the person must be taught the mental tools to cope by someone that knows and understands the mind itself.
In Murray's case the schizoid personality was prominent. There was also blunting present, which I wasn't to clear about before. He lived in his own little world, was the loneliest man on earth and he couldn't do a thing about it. The rational capacity of his mind went down to barely functional. There's been no mention of where he worked, he could only dabble at school efforts and has attack plan stunk. His postings were mostly copied. He was schizophrenic going downhill and no one recognized it. For the last year, he wasn't crying for help, he was taunting objects, because his mind was no longer rational enough to recognize other persons and the blunting prevented him from perceiving even beauty and happiness. A novice attempting their best efforts of help would have been doing the equivalent of attempting to teach a pig to sing. They'd just be spinning their wheels and annoying the pig.
I think the reports are effected by the inability to communicate that the cause of death was self inflicted and by gun shot. Gun shot being turned into shot gun. See, some reports have gun shot and others shot_gun. Also the 1000rds appears to be, "magazines capable of holding a 1000 rnds". Meaning it was pure exaggeration.
Omigosh! And here, I had always wondered how liberals came to be.
Thank you for explaining.
:-)
That’s it! You’re welcome.
Interesting.
It all began with a correspondence class in locksmithing I took one winter...
I hope it was a better course than the one on clowning around.
Perhaps you could get a refund.
=+4 looks like this
=++4 looks like this
+4 with bold command looks like this.
One thing that is practically impossible to determine, even in hindsight, is how much the seemingly insurmountable problems of your teen years was due to the hormones kicking in, versus how much was due to the fact that everyone in the world was a jerk except me (well, at that age anyway, this fact seemed blindingly clear).
Given the memories of those years, I can at least partly understand how teens can turn to suicidal thoughts. I am so glad in retrospect that my first broken heart occurred many years after I'd first had to deal with the hormones that screw up the brain so badly.
As a teen, my thoughts went down the same road that I am guessing other teens' do. I came to the firm conclusion that I and the rest of the world could not go on another day co-existing with each other. But whereas a normal teen might at that point start thinking about suicide because it seems like the only logical solution to this problem, I decided that it just wasn't fair that I should have to kill myself. I thought the rest of the world should kill THEMselves.
Not suffering under any delusion that I could convince all 5 billion of them to agree with me, I settled on a reasonable substitute scenario for having the human race disappear --- I would run away to a wilderness somewhere, "live off the land" and never see any other humans again. Hey, it looked so easy in all those movies of mountain men and plane crash survivors and shipwreck survivors. I seriously planned to do that (or so I told myself). Luckily for me, I never attempted it. If I had, reality would have no doubt destroyed this ultimate fantasy I held close all those years. It was much better that I was able to naively cling to it and tell myself, "One of these days! If I'm pushed any further, I'm going away forever" rather than to try it, fail miserably, and then have no escapist dream at all.
All right! Getting off too far on a rabbit trail ..... I can't begin to imagine how much more difficult the teen years could be for someone with a disease-related brain chemical imbalance. From the little we know, it sounds like MM suffered this. I had a roommate, and later a renter, who were both bipolar (don't know if this was true of MM). The former suffered for years until he was diagnosed. The last I heard of him, chemicals were making his life mostly normal.
The latter was normal when I first met him, but soon after he and his wife and 5-6 year old daughter (named "Pandora," I kid you not) started to rent from us, he stopped taking his meds without telling anyone. Apparently a common scenario is that the meds have undesirable side effects that cause sufferers to stop taking them. The immediate result is no change in behavior (because it takes awhile to change), and none of those nasty side effects. A win-win situation! Or so they think.
So the longer they're off the meds, the worse the behavior gets. Only, it's gradual enough that they're unable to realize that they have changed. From their point of view, they're absolutely normal, but for some mysterious unexplained reason, everyone around them has suddenly become an insufferable jerk.
It seems most every time I called or visited, only dealing with his wife each time, he was incomprehensively screaming at the top of his lungs in the background. A year or two after they skipped town, I saw his obituary (he was in his early 30's), but it didn't say what he died of. I really do wonder if it involved violence. The obit did mention he was divorced by that time.
Sigh! I really pray the daughter is doing OK today.
And I can't help but wonder if MM did something similar - refused to take the meds, and ended up spiraling downwards, seeing many hands reaching out to try and help, and spurning them all, because of a completely warped view of the people behind those hands.
Ok so how do you get the text to be so wide, I knew how to size and I know how to bold but yours still comes out wider, is it the fact your using capial letters or a different text.
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