Think twice before using deadly force

KHOU Houston ^ | Thursday, November 29, 2007 | Dave Fehling / 11 News

[papertyger]

...introduced very important protection from liability in civil and criminal areas.

And haven't the ambulance chasing parasites howled over THAT one?

[Dr.Zoidberg]

Number of rounds in US=X

Number of lawyers in US=Y

X>Y

Can't fault your math, but the ratio is still much too low for my liking. When Y≈0, then we'll all be much safer.

[cinives]

Interesting, I have never heard of that. I can tell you that my family’s friend was a world traveller and maybe he had run across this before.

[Pistolshot]

To be honest, you really should think through what you are going to do in the event of something like this, BEFORE you get to that point. Always have a plan, a phone, and adequate witnesses, if possible.

Just to give you an example:

My oldest and I were in a grocery store getting a few items. I had chosen a 1911 for the short trip, just because I carry habitually and it was the easiest to get to going out the door.

While we were going down an aisle, we heard a crash of carts and some words exchanged between two idiots. I call them idiots, because when we turned the corner here were the two 'combatants' squared off with, of all things, garden tools. The small 3-prong rake and the small trowel.

Now, while I was this was going on a couple of people tried to get the two seprated, and of course, the two idiots were in a state of stupidity, swinging at these people with their 'formidable' weapons.

This all ended when I drew my 1911 and announced this crap was over. I informed the two that dropping the 'weapons' and keeping their hands in the open would probably be a good thing. We walked to the office and waited for the police to arrive. Lo and behold, the two idiots wanted to press assault charges against me, because I interfered with their argument and had a gun.

Fortunately, there were 5 or 6 people who saw the whole thing and the two idiots were arrested and booked for Assault with a deadly weapon and child endangerment.

But the picture of them squared off with the garden tools still makes me laugh.

[magslinger]

Can't fault your math, but the ratio is still much too low for my liking. When Y≈0, then we'll all be much safer.

We will be safer still if we increase X. There are dangers other than lawyers in this country.

Note to self: Buy more ammo today.

[El Gato]

ccording to Websters: "bur'gla-ry 1. Law. Breaking and entering the dwelling house of another, in the nighttime, with intent to commit a felony therein, whether the felonious purpose be accomplished or not. At common law it was not night as respects burglary so long as there was light enough to discern a man's face; but in England night for this purpose is fixed by statute as from 9 o'clock P.M. to 6 o'clock A.M."

Well Websters is not a good source for legal definitions. Common law definitions may well be different than statute law, but when in conflict, statute law rules. It's why we have written law, rather than just a series of judicial rulings, which is what "common law" actually is.

From Legal Dictionary at the Free Dictionary

burglary n. the crime of breaking and entering into a structure for the purpose of committing a crime. No great force is needed (pushing open a door or slipping through an open window is sufficient) if the entry is unauthorized. Contrary to common belief, a burglary is not necessarily for theft. It can apply to any crime, such as assault or sexual harassment, whether the intended criminal act is committed or not. Originally under English Common Law burglary was limited to entry in residences at night, but it has been expanded to all criminal entries into any building, or even into a vehicle.

Even in England, it's been expanded to all the time.

Sussex Police Information Centre

But of course in this case , what really counts is the definition in Texas Law.

§ 30.02. BURGLARY.

(a) A person commits an offense if, without the effective consent of the owner, the person:

(1) enters a habitation, or a building (or any portion of a building) not then open to the public, with intent to commit a felony, theft, or an assault; or

(2) remains concealed, with intent to commit a felony, theft, or an assault, in a building or habitation; or

(3) enters a building or habitation and commits or attempts to commit a felony, theft, or an assault.

(b) For purposes of this section, "enter" means to intrude:

(1) any part of the body; or

(2) any physical object connected with the body.

(c) Except as provided in Subsection (d), an offense under this section is a:

(1) state jail felony if committed in a building other than a habitation; or

(2) felony of the second degree if committed in a habitation.

(d) An offense under this section is a felony of the first degree if:

(1) the premises are a habitation; and

(2) any party to the offense entered the habitation

with intent to commit a felony other than felony theft or committed or attempted to commit a felony other than felony theft.

Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974. Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, § 1.01, eff. Sept. 1, 1994; Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 318, § 8, eff. Sept. 1, 1995; Acts 1999, 76th Leg., ch. 727, § 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1999.

[El Gato]

There is now a thread on the linked article about the Columbian Gang story

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1934902/posts

[Freedom4US]

Well Websters is not a good source for legal definitions.

Looks pretty good to me.

I'm just sayin' - The very definition of Burglary - breaking and entering at night. I wasn't mis-remembering.

That some chuckleheads are deconstructing language isn't surprising.

[Dr.Zoidberg]

Don't misunderstand me, I'm all for more X. Having X = ∞ would be a very good thing.

But with Y being a consistently negative factor, decreasing the number of Y would show a positive outcome.

There should be a lot fewer Y searching for any chance to take everything you own so they can feather their own nests while giving their clients 10%.

It's an equation with few downsides.

[Eaker]

I read this and thought: "He has a dog like Eaker's."

LOL!

A man is known by his dog!

[MARTIAL MONK]

A man is known by his dog!

And a woman by her "puppies".

[Robert357]

A lot of good comments and a lot of bad comments. Each state and some communities have different laws.

In a true self defense situation, at a minimum, one should expect a citation for discharge of a firearm in an area where that is illegal. Generally speaking (yes the laws are different just about everywhere) use of deadly force should be reserved for situations where one fears for their life or the life/safety of another and the person using deadly force should understand what that means and clearly express that to everyone before and after they discharge a firearm. In such a situation there is no such thing as a "warning shot" or shooting to "wing" the other person, it is a matter of life and death or you shouldn't be using deadly force. Likewise in such a situation if there is a civil lawsuit, the worst that will happen is that you will find out exactly how much your life or the life you were defending is worth, which is a lot better than how much a funeral costs.

Everyone who has a firearm should go through a training course on what the laws/regulations are in their area. Just because I have been around cars all my life doesn't necessarily mean that I know in each state if they allow free right turns at stops or if they allow free left turns onto one-way streets. The same is true with firearms, some places you do not have a duty to retreat and other places you do. Some places you can legally shoot someone for felony theft and in others you can not.

The post traumatic stress associated with taking a life is not something that should be taken lightly. Owning a firearm, knowing when to use deadly forces and being capable of using deadly force are all different things and need to be completely explored prior to a crisis situation.

Now getting off my soapbox, thanks for posting this and thanks to all who have made for some interesting reading.

[YCTHouston]

“there is no such thing as a “warning shot” or shooting to “wing” the other person, it is a matter of life and death or you shouldn’t be using deadly force.”

A local radio host made that point today. Warning shots and “winging” are all in the movies; don’t aim the gun unless you’re prepared to take a life.

“The post traumatic stress associated with taking a life is not something that should be taken lightly.”

Someone made that point above. I’ve known people who took years to get over it.

[Pistolshot]

Someone made that point above. I’ve known people who took years to get over it.

Some never do. I know people like that.

[thackney]

A man is known by his dog!

It could be worse, you could be known by your friends.