Cheering crowd attends disputed ordination of two women as priests

STLtoday.com, Website of the St. Louis Post Dispatch ^ | 11/12/2007 | Michele Munz

[Verginius Rufus]

...Pope Pius XIII out there in his shack in Montana.

Aha! That's where the Montanists are nowadays.

[Mrs. Don-o]

"I can't find it Written that *man* will have much to say about who God elects to use male or female."

It's not "men" who are making this decision. The Pope did NOT say "I have the authority to stop them," he said, "I (and none of us) do NOT have the authority to ordain them." The Pope, a bishop, or all the bishops in the world couldn't ordain a woman. Because they don't have the authority.

There's a fuller explanation here.

In short: the Church can only maintain the Truth, uphold the Truth. It can't invent the Truth.

[Mrs. Don-o]

The ordained Catholic priesthood is not “ordained by man.” See above.

[Live free or die]

This is obviously a fraud and shameful one too. Some of the commentary on this board though is raising some interesting questions: what if it hadn’t come from some liberal political action committee, as it almost seems to have, but from The Vatican? What if the Pope convenes Vatican III tomorrow and issues a bull declaring that women can be priests. What then? I’m not Catholic so you’ll have to explain it to me in layman’s terms.

[Constantine XIII]

So i herd u liek being excommunicated...

[Just mythoughts]

Which is precisely what the members of my Bible study class say happened to them. But your INTERPRETATION (note, not "interrupt") is nuts. The ones who were "speaking in tongues" were the Apostles, not the Holy Spirit. And "noised abroad" usually means, "once word had spread"...

I am NOT trying to be difficult here but as it is Written....Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, *they were all with one accord in ONE place*. So how could *noised abroad* "once word had spread"... take place before the day or this gathering ended. Sure it was spread after the event because we now read of its occurrence. Peter says they were NOT drunk off new wine but it was describing what Joel foretold would take place in the *last days*.

Now verses 7-11 describes all the different tongues assembled in ONE place on the day of Pentecost.

Luke 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of My Father upon you:

but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, *until* ye be endued with power from on high." ...Pentecost Day...

I speak English, and I have yet to hear a different language speaker preach a sermon and I understand them without a person to translate their words into English. This describes the words spoken not requiring a translator or interrupter, but that every different language speaker understood what was spoken in their own tongue. Now given the belief of some that women be required to stay silent in church, what would be an acceptable platform for these daughters Joel foretold would be in the *last days* to prophesy?

[Just mythoughts]

Must be ELCA. Those folks have been spending too much time with the Episco-pagans. I'm Missouri Synod Lutheran. We're old school all the way. It's very refreshing for a former Episcopalian.

I am sorry, this church (I tend to get the dominations confused) was Presbyterian, with the woman performing the wedding ceremony. I had to do some checking it was NOT Lutheran my apology for any unintended offense to anyone of any religion or denomination.

[grellis]

If you name me Monkey Queen of the Mitten, I’ll wash and wax that nifty jeep you drive, Papa!

[Mrs. Don-o]

See #102. If (per insanity) the Pope and all the assembled Bishops and Cardinals attempted to ordain some lovely woman in St. Peter's Basilica with every level of holy hoopla, it wouldn't be a valid ordination and she wouldn't be a priest.

The basic reason is, God didn't give the Church the authority to confer Holy Orders on women.

The underlying reason is, (my explanation, layman's terms) we Catholics hold that physical, material things have meaning--- and not an arbitrary, assigned meaning, either, but innate meaning. For an obvious example: pure, clean water means purification and life, and can't "mean" corruption and filth. A candle means light and cannot "mean" darkness. It's not always a one-to-one correspondance: for instance, blessed oil can mean health and strength, wealth, blessing, consecration as a priest, king, or prophet, etc. but it cannor "mean" mourning or ruin. You get the idea.

A male person's and a female person's bodies have a nuptial meaning to each other. There are two Sacraments in which that meaning has sacramental significance.

(1) In Holy Matrimony, only a man and a woman can marry each other, because their bodies mean "suitable partners" or intimate union: the kind of union God calls "one flesh together." Of course this has procreative significance, but even if there's no question of procreation (say both people getting married are in their 60's) it's their male-and-femaleness that makes them suitable for Matrimony.

(2)In Holy Orders, it's the priest's bodily maleness that makes him symbolically embody Christ the Bridegroom, as in Ephesians 5:31-32:

"For this reason
a man will leave his father and mother
and be united to his wife,
and the two will become one flesh.
This is a profound mystery—--
but I am talking about
Christ and the Church."

Here the Church is characterized as bring the Bride, female.

A woman can do many, many things excellently. The one thing she can't do is embody the meaning of "Christ the Bridegroom."

For the same reason a man can't be a Bride.

Of course, feminism has now taken up gender-bending and gender-blending, basically saying the body per se has no signifiance, it's meaningless. It's no wonder they've made common cause with the unfortunate gay guy. He will not be called (by the Womynpriestesses) to healthy and blessed masculinity. He will be invited to meaninglessness.

[Wonder Warthog]

The Apostles were "assembled in one place" (in a house). The Holy Spirit came upon them with a loud noise as a great wind. Once word had spread among the people OUTSIDE THE HOUSE, that "something was going down at XXX address", they gathered near the house and listened to the Apostles, who had obvsiously by this time, gone outside. All of this could quite easily have happened during the same day.

"I speak English, and I have yet to hear a different language speaker preach a sermon and I understand them without a person to translate their words into English.

And I tell you that members of my Bible study group have had this exact thing happen to them. In one case, it was a group working in English, and one lady who happened to also speak French recognized the "tongue" being spoken as French and understood what was said. In another case, it was a foreign group (non-English), and a visitor heard the "tongue" as English (which happened to be her native languge).

"Now given the belief of some that women be required to stay silent in church, what would be an acceptable platform for these daughters Joel foretold would be in the *last days* to prophesy?"

What makes you think that they had to be "in church" in order to prophesy. Several of the Catholic prophetesses did so in convents. There are many different venues in which prophecy can happen.

[longtermmemmory]

actually should they not now be excommunicated?

Seems they are so out of the faith, they should be out of the faith to preclude the notice that they are fighting from “inside the church.”

[Juana la Loca]

No, you don’t need the pope’s command or permission to perform a sacrament. However, for a sacrament to be valid it must follow the form and matter as defined by the Church. As these ceremonies do not meet the the necessary criteria as contained in the infallible Deposit of Faith, they are not sacraments.

[rogernz]

how wonderful its gonna be to read of their excommunication! lol...