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High court to look at ban on handguns
McClatchy-Tribune ^ | Nov. 9, 2007, 12:18AM | MICHAEL DOYLE

Posted on 11/09/2007 3:17:09 AM PST by cbkaty

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To: Admin Moderator

A lot of people will be wondering: why is robertpaulsen back?


801 posted on 11/14/2007 7:41:39 AM PST by ctdonath2 (The color blue tastes like the square root of 0?)
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To: Crim
“A well balanced check book, being necessary to the security of a household, the right of the parents to write and cash checks, shall not be infringed’

How about, "A bank checking account, being necessary to the security of a household, the right of the parents to write and cash checks, shall not be infringed"?

What is being protected? Can you protect one and not the other? Do you see a connection between the two?

802 posted on 11/14/2007 8:00:03 AM PST by robertpaulsen
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To: El Gato
"The preamble states that the right is protected because a well regulated militia is necessary"

The preamble states that the right is protected because a well regulated militia is necessary to the security of a free state.

Interesting to note that the preamble does not state that the right is protected because a well armed citizenry is necessary to the security of a free state.

803 posted on 11/14/2007 8:04:18 AM PST by robertpaulsen
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To: woollyone
"and you might note my sarcasm in reply"

I noted you dodged my direct question. I merely assumed you couldn't answer it. Which is fine.

804 posted on 11/14/2007 8:06:52 AM PST by robertpaulsen
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To: El Gato
"The reason given for the protecting that right is that a well regulated militia is necessary to the security of a free state."

I agree.

All I'm saying is that an unorganized militia, by definition, wouldn't qualify. I don't consider an unorganized militia to be well regulated.

If the Founding Fathers didn't care, they wouldn't have added the phrase "well regulated" to the second amendment.

805 posted on 11/14/2007 8:13:12 AM PST by robertpaulsen
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To: robertpaulsen

...you again?

What a cad!
I thought you were run out of town!

Please, stay gone next time!


806 posted on 11/14/2007 8:18:50 AM PST by woollyone (tazers...the 21st century version of the rusty bed frame, car battery, & clamps)
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To: cbkaty

This is the same non-news as we have seen over the past few days. Since when is it news that the court receives a petition and has not yet decided on cert? This is an everyday occurance.


807 posted on 11/14/2007 8:21:05 AM PST by BlueNgold (Feed the Tree .....)
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To: ctdonath2; Admin Moderator

what he said!


808 posted on 11/14/2007 8:21:07 AM PST by woollyone (tazers...the 21st century version of the rusty bed frame, car battery, & clamps)
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To: Jim Verdolini
"The states that protect concealed carry rights and RKBA now have a constituency that demand this right, and it is not likely now or in the near future that those states will abolish those rights."

Then you don't think Kelo was damaging?

SCOTUS overturning Parker would be similar -- no direct harm, but it would give the green light and the justification to those who wish to undermine our rights.

809 posted on 11/14/2007 8:23:44 AM PST by robertpaulsen
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To: ctdonath2
If D.C. officials tried to salvage their gun-control law by appealing to the Supreme Court — as they then did — they could give the court's conservative majority a chance to undermine gun-control laws nationwide.

"Undermine" or "correct bad laws"?

810 posted on 11/14/2007 8:25:25 AM PST by 1Old Pro
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To: ctdonath2
"We tried that. Doesn’t work. Ignoring some people doesn’t make them go away."

A good counter-argument with supporting documentation might do the trick.

You know as well as I that the second amendment has never applied to the states. Why do I have to tell your buddy that? Why aren't you telling him that? Seriously. Why do you let that stand without rebuttal?

You want to get rid of me? Fine. Then take over. Make me unnecessary.

811 posted on 11/14/2007 8:33:43 AM PST by robertpaulsen
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To: robertpaulsen
Interesting to note that the preamble does not state that the right is protected because a well armed citizenry is necessary to the security of a free state.

That is EXACTLY WHAT IT SAYS in conjunction with the whole sentence.

Something is "necessary to the security of a free state".
What is that something?
That something is "a well-regulated militia".
What is a militia?
The militia is "civilians primarily, soldiers on occasion".
How is a militia "well-regulated"?
Among other things, it is "well armed".
How can we most easily and thoroughly achieve a "well-regulated militia", which is no less than a "well armed citizenry"?
We can efficiently achieve a well armed citizenry by protecting "the right of the people to keep and bear arms".
Who are "the people"?
The people are the aggregate of individual citizens.
Who is to "keep ... arms"?
Individual citizens keep arms - their own, at their own cost, under their own control.
Who is to "bear arms"?
Individual citizens bear arms - under the organization of Congress when called up, under their own responsible discretion when not.

Ergo, the preamble (in conjunction with that which it is a preamble to) states that the right is protected because (along with the fact that it is a natural right) a well armed citizenry is necessary to the security of a free state.

812 posted on 11/14/2007 8:41:19 AM PST by ctdonath2 (The color blue tastes like the square root of 0?)
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To: publiusF27
"these men were expected to appear bearing arms"

"These men" being a fairly select group of individuals. In Federalist 46, Madison envisioned "... a militia amounting to near half a million of citizens with arms in their hands ...". In 1788, that represented only 15-20% of the population.

813 posted on 11/14/2007 9:02:52 AM PST by robertpaulsen
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To: ctdonath2
"BTW: voting is not included in the BoR, much less enumerated as “shall not be infringed”. Arms possession is."

No, but voting is included in other amendments -- the 15th, 19th, 24th, and the 26th -- and they say, "shall not be denied or abridged".

Those amendments count too, don't they?

"The people is the aggregate of individual citizens.
The militia is the aggregate of individual citizens, individually self-armed.
That was plainly the understanding of the time."

Of certain individual citizens, yes. I agree. And the second amendment protected their inividual right to keep and bear arms when they acted in the aggregate.

814 posted on 11/14/2007 9:14:54 AM PST by robertpaulsen
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To: robertpaulsen
If the Founding Fathers didn't care, they wouldn't have added the phrase "well regulated" to the second amendment.

How "well regulated" would you consider a militia that can field nothing but shotguns?

815 posted on 11/14/2007 9:17:49 AM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: ctdonath2
"How about their right to keep and bear M4s?"

As members of the California State Militia, the right of Californians to keep and bear M4's cannot be infringed by the federal government.

816 posted on 11/14/2007 9:18:51 AM PST by robertpaulsen
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To: ctdonath2
"Yes you did: The Militia Act of 1792 described a militia that was organized, armed, trained and accoutered with officers appointed by the state."

Ah. Allow me to re-phrase.

The Militia Act of 1792 described a militia that was organized, armed, trained and accoutered. The Militia Act of 1792 also said that officers were appointed by the state.

817 posted on 11/14/2007 9:21:57 AM PST by robertpaulsen
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To: tacticalogic
"If you believe that as long as some people can still buy a firearm of some kind, then the right to keep and bear arms hasn't been infringed, then that's a perfectly good argument."

You only asked me for one!!

I do what you ask, I give you one, and then you come back and say, "Well, if that's all you got what kind of protection is that?"

You are a piece of work.

818 posted on 11/14/2007 9:26:06 AM PST by robertpaulsen
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To: ctdonath2
"You of anyone should know ..."

Correct.

"In the margin some of the more important opinions and comments by writers are cited. 3 [307 U.S. 174, 183] We are unable to accept the conclusion of the court below and the challenged judgment must be reversed. The cause will be remanded for further proceedings.

Reversed and remanded.

Mr. Justice DOUGLAS took no part in the consideration or decision of this cause."

819 posted on 11/14/2007 9:30:04 AM PST by robertpaulsen
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To: ctdonath2
"And in that Act, individuals were to get their OWN equipment (arms included) at their OWN cost. ...so again: why can’t I, a member of the militia, get an M4?"

If you are a member of your state's well regulated militia, the federal government cannot infringe your right to keep and bear an M4. I'm saying you can get an M4.

820 posted on 11/14/2007 9:33:33 AM PST by robertpaulsen
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