Posted on 10/20/2007 10:21:39 AM PDT by Ol' Sparky
I’m with you. I am praying that it’s not Rudy, but if it is, he’ll get my reluctant vote.
I do understand those who say they will not vote for the GOP nominee if it’s Rudy, so hold your flames. I just cannot in good conscience NOT vote for the GOP nominee.
But, hey, I’m not such a bad guy
We agree on lots of stuff
So vote for me!
the people who brought us Mehlman, keep FOley, and other effete elites of the GOP leadership want us to lose focus on the primary and get distracted by the general election.
The key is to keep remembering.
NO Giuliani, no problem.
the NYC mentality GOP leadership is lock step to coronating Giuliani . (see “YOU HAVE to accept comprehensive immigration reform.” and “no its not reeeeealy amnesty”)
Then you'll make the mistakes that will allow Hillary to win.
From a strictly analytical position, Rudy would seem to have the best opportunity to pull centrist voters, the voters that actually decide elections.
But I'm thinking that Romney might have a very good ability to sell himself to centrists, once he gets a campaign rolling.
I'd love to see Fred win, but I think Hillary might destroy him.
Personally, I wish Gingrich was in the race. Although there seems to be as much Newt derangement syndrome around here as Rudy derangement. I love Gingrich's ability to start with a new page and do something new. America has lost it's dynamism, and he might be able to restore it.
But whomever wins the nomination, they'd best be able to beat Hillary. That's the bottom line for me. I'm just not sure who that would be. The question will likely turn on just how stubborn hard core conservatives are to get their way or the highway.
You and those like you are the problem and you are not the cure. You do not get what you want by putting up the worst you have. You get what you want by putting up the best you have and believing in it.
Its called standing up. Whatever happened to that?
We know that Presidency of Bill Clinton paved the way for Republicans to win back Congress. A balanced budget and welfare reform followed as did an extension of Reagan-era economic prosperity.
Nothing good is coming from a liberal Republican pushing liberal legislation through a Democratically-controlled Congress while the GOP continues to be a shrinking minority in Congress.
I'd much rather relive the Clinton years than terminate conservatism with a Schwarzenegger-like liberal.
‘We cannot diminish the value of one category of human life — the unborn — without diminishing the value of all human life.’ —Ronald Reagan
I disagree. You're making a highly subjective statement that can't be backed up, and making it solely attempting to help your cause of defeating Rudy. It carries no water with me.
"No, Rudy, it is not. Youre spouting the religious lefts WCC-style false doctrine. Christianity is about just the opposite..."
Christianity is not about inclusiveness? The hell it isn't. That's what makes this a great country! Inclusiveness! Christianity is all about Love, Forgiveness and Inclusiveness. Any suggestion that it isn't will reap a strident repsonse from this FReeper. And that, my FRiend, comes from a Jew.
"Bring me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be free." Freedom of expression, RELIGION, the freedom to be great!
This country is and has become great, precisely because the Founding Fathers were ardently inclusive as part of their Christian beliefs.
Over the line? Hardly.
Or the way you ensure Hillary wins. If that's a responsible pro-life move, then it could be pretty self-defeating.
I'm sorry, you cannot seriously compare the political junkies at FR who follow politics and political issues like most people follow sports and gossip shows, with the rest of America.
The famous poll that says 27% of conservatives would vote for an unnamed generic canddiate is utterly worthless. Who's going to be the candidate? What party? Look at how well third parties have done the last few elections. Any pro-life billionaires out there with name recognition able to fire up enough people to give s sh*t and throw away their vote, or do you think most Americans will realy be pragmatists and vote for a candidate who will keep things status quo as oposed to Hillary who will gurantee abortions increase and become more plentiful AND paid for with your tax dollars? Now if there is going to be a well funded thirdy aprty independent candidate it will be someone like Mike Bloomberg who most certianly is a social liberal.
America is currently a center right nation, and is also a nation of pragmatists.
LOL. So it's all Rudy's fault that you must take positions that helps Hillary.
Listen, the help to split the party wide open is being supported by Hillary. Exactly how many trolls are there here on FR are hyping up this anti-Rudy emotionalism? I'm not saying you are one, but guaranteed there are some here.
I once thought FR was a place where conservatives could come and quietly and intelligently discuss how we were going to defeat Democrats. I see that I was mistaken.
If you want to defeat Hillary, don't support Rudy.
The split is the fault of those willing to morph the Party into something entirely unrecognizale (ref. post #49, which you have not addressed). It would be outrageous for any conservative to support someone with "those conservative credentials".
The willingness of many to 'throw the base under the bus' is the problem. Yes, then, you must be mistaken.
I don't. It's an objectively defeatist concept.
Would you have avoided fighting in WWII because you didn't like FDR and the New Deal? No way.
Defeating liberalism sometimes involves avoiding huge steps backwards by allowing a baby step backward. A strategic retreat in order to regroup and fight more tomorrow. The long term view is the proper way to look at this, and liberalism must be defeated in detail by denying it power for decades. Even if that means voting for someone who isn't perfect.
That brilliance kept Bustamonte from being installed in Sacramento. Same brilliance will keep hillary from being installed at 1600 Penn Avenue.
for public perception
RUDY GIULIANI IS HILLARY CLINTON
I was mayor on 9/11 = I was senator on 9/11
I will be strong on the war = I voted to approve the war
I cleaned up NYC = I will create universal healthcare
I support right to chose abortion = I support the right to chose abortion
I support the AWB = I support the AWB
We are in a PRIMARY
PRIMARY where we eliminate the unacceptable candidates and the pointless candidates.
We had many rudy bot trolls initially here who were hyping up the Giuliani campaign (more than a few paid I suspect) however, being against Giuliani as the nominee is not emotional.
No Giuliani, NO PROBLEM
is based on his positions, the reactions of various groups, and just plain logic. Eliminate Giuliani in the primary and we eliminate the Giulaini Problem.
What you see happening on FR (the SPLIT in the Party) is exactly,,,yes EXACTLY,,,what everyone (Republican, Democrat, Liberal, Conservative)—pundits, talk show hosts, yes even CNN, FOX, take your pick—is talking about. The potential split in the Party is one of the most discussing topics in any political discussion—and we all know who would cause that split.
http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/253663.aspx
Giuliani’s Value Voters Speech: No Fear
October 20, 2007
Rudy Giuliani came here to the Value Voters Summit Saturday and boldly proclaimed, You have nothing to fear from me. Websters defines fear this way: To be afraid or feel anxious or apprehensive about a possible or probable situation or event.
With Giuliani inching closer to the Republican nomination, fear may be gripping some social conservatives for sure. But on Saturday, Giuliani laid out his best material and full arsenal in a pitch to get their votes. The case was compelling and if Giuliani keeps making speeches like this, he has a good shot to gather enough social conservatives to his side to win the nomination.
Listen, as weve said here before Giuliani isnt going to get the bulk of the single issue voters (life, marriage) but what he did Saturday is lay out a bunch of items he does have in common with social conservatives. Issues like school choice, fighting Internet pornography, keeping Gods name in the public square, increasing adoptions, home schooling support, supporting a ban on partial birth abortion, parental notification, strict constructionist judges and oh by the way, fighting terrorism and supporting Israel. Folks, any way you slice it, thats a boatload. It was so much material that Giuliani said forget the 20 minute time slot, Im going over. He did. By about 20 minutes.
The question is can social conservatives overlook his pro-choice and pro-domestic partnership views and settle on all the rest he says he has in common with them? I noticed throughout the whole speech Giuliani weaved this idea of trust into everything he was saying. You can trust me. You can trust me. You can trust me. Clearly, that was a veiled shot at Mitt Romney. So was the line where he said he wont twist issues up like a pretzel.
Afterwards, the reaction by social conservatives seemed to be pretty positive. Nobody thinks Giuliani is going to win the straw poll but I even had a policy guy from the Family Research Council tell me the speech was a 7 out of 10. That’s saying something. Some werent too thrilled with his inclusiveness line at the beginning of his speech (which they believe is code for liberal) and he didnt mention marriage at all. But all in all, the speech went over better than expected from the people I talked to.
Heres the way I see it. The speech was very good and had a lot of issue oriented meat in it. Giuliani was greeted with polite applause but left the room to an even friendlier crowd. To use a football analogy, he may not have gotten in the end zone with this crowd, but he moved the chains with this speech. The ball is marching down the field. No fumble.
You need to go soak your head. You are way off base. You are a defeatist type.
You defeat nothing by accepting a part of it. What is wrong with you?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.