Posted on 07/26/2007 5:35:18 PM PDT by leadpenny
And that is exactly what is happening here. The notion that "how far up in the Bush Administration" did this "cover-up" go (non-cover-up that is, considering the reality that Ranger Tillman was killed via blue on blue was told within a month....Far faster than plenty of other ruled blue on blue deaths).
That you seemingly want to go down this road and help give it fuel leads me to start believing what others have insisted to me previously (where I have tempted instead to give you the benefit of the doubt).
There is no large scale cover-up. This has nothing to do with the Bush Administration. Ranger Tillman was not purposely killed.....These notions are disgusting and serve no other purpose than a political agenda. Period. Full Stop.
Left to cast aspersions is not the way for this incident to rest. Move the stone away and reveal the truth. We need to know the truth because if it’s not a mistaken identity tragedy then it is what it is. If it is an unintentional death by friendly fire then the people who try and use this to undermine the effort of our military men and women would have to back the hell up.
That's a despicable thing to say. I'll wait to see what comes out in the hearings next week. In the mean time, there are seven general officers about to be disciplined. I'm certain it's not for littering.
I don’t know what happened in the Tillman matter - I doubt anyone else really knows either.
Unfortunately it seems there are plenty of people trying to turn what is almost certainly a terrible accident into some kind of evil conspiracy. Since when do bullet wounds at close range (if they really were) establish intent in this kind of situation? Maybe the firing positions were not neatly organized like a movie but were chaotic and changing, and maybe Tillman stepped into the line of fire from one of his fellow Rangers. Even those who were there may not be sure what happened.
What is known though is that a brave American patriot lost his life defending our nation against the enemy. That's enough for me.
I see, you’ve got it all figured out.
You’re is conclusive and mine is adding fuel to the fire.
Get some rest.
LOL... Yeah that "pro war" AP is just a mouthpiece for the Bush administration. LOL.
Sorry, I don't buy a word of this. Long on innuendo and real short on fact. Not to be taken seriously.
Not sure when thousands of pages of DoD documents obtained through a FOIA request became "Innuendo."
As always, people need a criteria for judging whether something is true OTHER than whether they want to believe it or not.
I don’t know what the real truth is, but I do know one thing for certain.
Pat Tillman was a great patriot, and a true American hero.
I will always remember what he sacrificed for us all.
I pray that he is with our Lord in Heaven, and that his sacrifice will not have been in vain.
I dunno, its a shame he died just as its a shame the other 3000+ soldiers have died plus the numerous others with injuries.
All of those others have not had this level of attention. These investigations are hurting the war effort and hurting good soldiers.
I find it certainly plausible that someone tried to cover up that it was friendly fire. As long as it wasn’t murder I don’t see that it really matters. Learn from it and put the focus back on killing our enemies without sacrificing more great Americans.
How does the Army overlook false statements and participation in a cover up, if that’s what took place?
And how does this hurt the effort in Iraq or Afghanistan or anywhere else and how does it hurt other soldiers not associated with the Tillman death.
“How does the Army overlook false statements and participation in a cover up, if that’s what took place?”
A cover up of what? That a NFL football star was shot in the heat of battle and senior officers decided to tell the family he was killed by enemy fire. Whats to cover up? Stuff happens in war.
“And how does this hurt the effort in Iraq or Afghanistan or anywhere else and how does it hurt other soldiers not associated with the Tillman deat”
1) It sows discord and mistrust among the military.
2) It gives our enemy information they can use against us.
3) It take valuable resources to complete all these investigations. Resources that could be used to fight the war. Resources that may possibly save other lives.
4) It takes experienced officers out of the chain of command.
5) It accomplishes nothing; he is still dead. Everyone knows it was friendly fire and yet the investigations continue.
The only purpose of this is to give the anti-war movement another weapon to use against our military and against the President.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1652029/posts
IIRC (and, believe me, I may not be recalling this entirely correctly so, if someone has better knowledge, please chime in) Diallo, an African (from Nigeria?), was in the darkened entry vestibule of his apartment (in a pretty rough neighborhood) when three undercover police officers (all white) working a armed rape case came up the steps behind him. It seems that Diallo thought he was being robbed and, while turning around, he reached for his wallet to hand it to his supposed robbers. The lead officer, thinking he was pulling a gun, managed to (nearly simultaneously) shout a warning, draw and fire his own pistol inaccurately, and slip and fall backward towards the two officers behind him (giving the impression he had been hit). In the next few seconds, dozens of shots were fired (51?) with many fatal hits (17?).
Why did these experienced officers keep firing when there was no return fire? It was speculated that they were reacting to reflections of muzzle flash off of surfaces within vestibule along with the echoing and reechoing of muzzle reports within the enclosed space.
Turning to Tillman and the cowering soldier, consider the general situation. It's night, they are in broken terrain, elements of the unit are separated, and they probably all believe that the previously engaged enemy is still near by. In such a situation, even experienced, well trained soldiers (as Rangers undoubtedly are) are going to be tense and liable to shoot and then investigate. Firing will beget sympathetic firing (at least until the first rush of adrenalin dies down) and the terrain will probably make it sound like fire is coming from multiple locations.
Consider the great possibility that, in the middle of this confusion, both Tillman and the other soldier KNOW the incoming fire is friendly. They are in a dilemma. They can’t shoot back at their own comrades, even if they are in error. Shooting their weapons in the air will probably just increase the perception of the shooting soldiers that they are under attack. They can’t maneuver; its dark, the ground is broken up, and suspicious movement WILL draw fire.
So what do they do? They get real low to the ground behind the best cover they can find to avoid getting hit and try to communicate to the shooting soldiers; communicate that they are not the enemy so they will calm down and stop shooting.
IMHO, that is exactly what Tillman was trying to do - communicate (and shouting to get the other soldier to help him) - when he accidental broke cover and caught the burst that killed him.
It was a crummy way to die - unintentionally, at the hands of your own comrades. But it is a part of war as much as victory and defeat are. Had the facts of his unfortunate death been told directly and without excuse as soon as they were first suspected, the Army would have been embarrassed along with everyone else who sought to use his death for political ends. But that embarrassment would have been long over and seven senior or very senior officers wouldn't have as the final entry in their service records: "participated in the Tillman cover-up scandal." I have no sympathy for them. They are getting what they deserve. I just hope that the other cover-up participants (like the Army lawyers who reportedly crowed to each other about thwarting the investigators) also are held accountable for their actions and appropriately disciplined.
In the final analysis, no matter how embarrassing, honesty really is the best policy.
Not to be glib about the particulars, but 3 shots to the forehead in close proximity? That has to be a M16 burst. Reminds me of the MOVIE Starship Troopers during training. Gun goes off and brains a guy. The Generals seem to have screwed the pooch here.
Tillman was a good man, a good soldier and a good American. He deserves whatever the truth bears including the heads of Generals who conspire to cover up the truth.
Tillman was killed by friendly fire.....
It happens....move on...
Tillman was killed by friendly fire.....
It happens....move on...
Even if it was a cover up as you described,
I find it certainly plausible that someone tried to cover up that it was friendly fire.
the chain of command can't turn a blind eye.
1) It sows discord and mistrust among the military.
There were plenty of scandals and cover ups during my 21 years in the Army that didn't involve me, and, while I watched from the sideline, they didn't effect my morale.
2) It gives our enemy information they can use against us.
For us, a strength and a weakness. But, we can't accept officers who lie.
3) It take valuable resources to complete all these investigations. Resources that could be used to fight the war. Resources that may possibly save other lives.
That's what CID and JAG personnel are for.
4) It takes experienced officers out of the chain of command.
See above. If, a big IF, they lie, they should be gone.
5) It accomplishes nothing; he is still dead. Everyone knows it was friendly fire and yet the investigations continue.
What it accomplishes is that it maintains the integrity of the Military.
Would three rounds from an M16 at relatively close range leave three separate holes? I know they aren’t hollow points, but holy smokes there a lot of power there....through a helmet or not? This is one of the saddest stories..........
AP hit piece.
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