Posted on 06/23/2007 1:28:02 PM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist
~”Mormonism produces lots of babies and green jello.”~
Think there’s a relationship...? Green jello can be quite entertaining stuff...
I’m just sayin’.
“...in a few years...”
What does that phrase mean to you?
And what does it mean to God?
Primitive Christians looked forward to Christ’s return during their lifetimes, because He used similar phraseology.
>>“Religion is not a reliable gauge of a man’s Character.”
>
> And what would be? His shoe size?
His conduct.
Religion is not a reliable gauge of a man’s Character. I know a devout Catholic who is probably the greatest unhanged villain on this planet: yet he never misses Mass.
And I know another devout Catholic whose place in Heaven is almost certainly assured, prepaid and Business-class.
I have a friend who is an Athiest, yet she does the “Do unto others” part of Christ’s commandment better than most Christians could ever aspire to. An Athiest (and thus Dam’ned by definition) with no hope of or desire for a reward in the afterlife!
I have another friend who is a Wiccan. She helps the homeless folk and the destitute and, from time to time, I help her help them. There was a time a couple hundred years ago when “Good Christians” would have hanged her, or burnt her at the stake, as a matter of duty. Jolly fun, a good gauge of Character this religion thing is, ay. They would have had plenty of fun stringing her up and watching her dance, a couple hundred years ago. I don’t know how many hundreds of people she has helped in her life — she probably doesn’t either. And I don’t know why she does it: surely she doesn’t think she’s going to heaven, because she is a witch! But reliably, when a mug of hot soup is needed on a cold winter nite to nourish a homeless fellow under a bridge — there she is.
I’ve got another friend who is a devout Muslim. Father of six kids. He would fight to the death to keep my family safe, and if that is against other muslims so be it. I trust him absolutely: he has proven himself many, many times. And I would fight and die if necessary to protect him and his family against any lynch mob out to get Muslims.
Religion is NOT a reliable gauge of a man’s Character.
Conduct is.
~”Why not go to the source?”~
If it doesn’t fit the agenda, UG, evidently it doesn’t make the cut.
Here's the URL for the early June article from the Salt Lake City Trib on the "White Horse Prophecy."
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1847116/posts
Some folks think that Mitt is the answer to the White Horse prophecy, a prophecy that at least in part has been repeated by a number of general authorities/LDS prophets.
“Your perspective is skewed to suit your presuppositions.”
That may be. Can you claim any different?
“Using quotes from Mormon documents is innacurate?”
If they’re out of context, maliciously edited, or otherwise twisted to fit an agenda they don’t actually support, then yes.
Websters definition of “few”: consisting of or amounting to only a small number.
We are at year 170 now from Joseph Smith’s prophecy that the United States governement would be utterly overthrown in a “few years.” Do you think 170 is “a few”? How many eggs do you want? A few. How many women have you dated? A few. This isn’t translation of Greek or Hebrew manuscripts. He used English to communicate.
~”this thread has many postings on these matters, quotes from the Pearl of Great Price, your written authority, and Mormon leaders. Hence, if anybody is lying it is you.”~
And the ones that are accurate are not contested by us. The technique used by many anti-Mormons is to take some quote or verse out of context and hype it up so that it becomes much more than it is. This is one of the many forms of lying.
~”if you aim to be a Mormon apologist, defending the false prophet Joseph Smith, you best not be so thin skinned.”~
You have no idea how thick my skin is. It’s not the attacks that get to me - it’s the mindless repetition of the same attacks, over and over and over and over again - usually word for word.
~”Beyond that, Romney has a Mormon fundraising committee run through BYU and directed by one of the 12.”~
I highly doubt that, particularly the “12” part. Do you have documentation?
~”Not the group of nepotistic embezzlers I know.”~
Have you reported them to the authorities yet? It has been over two months now.
This so-called “White Horse Prophecy” is also a twisted assertion based on specious evidence.
http://www.fairlds.org/pubs/whitehorse.pdf
FastCoyote knows this from previous discussions, but continues to spread the falsehood. An example of why such things are beginning to wear thin on me.
> The funny thing about this is that we Mormons are a lot closer in our beliefs to Orthodox Christianity than, say, Jews.
It’s true — your beliefs are much closer to Orthodox Christianity than is Judaism.
> And yet, evidently, we are barred by some from the highest office of the land on religious grounds that Jews, Buddhists, etc. pass.
That is because Mormons get tarred with the same brush as, say, Jehovah Witnesses. There were a whole bunch of “christian” religions that sprouted up in the mid-1800’s in America and most of them lack credibility for some reason.
> This speaks to a specific intolerance of Mormons that has little to do with rational thought.
I have read the Book of Mormon, cover to cover (I used to date a RLDS when I was a much younger man) and to my view it reads like a comic-book rather than as a holy word of God. Even the names — like “Mosiah” for instance — sound like something someone made up: a cut-and-paste between Moses and Isaiah. And the premise of “lost tribes of Israel” finding their way to America beggars my belief. No matter — I guess that is why I never became a Mormon.
That said, there is no denying the fact that many Mormons believe in Joseph Smith and Brigham Young and they follow their teachings. And those teachings tend towards people living decent, law-abiding and moral lives. And the Mormons that I do know (there are alot of them here DownUnder) tend toward doing good works for the Community and are highly visible, contributing members of Society.
Full marks, 100%.
So the mere fact that I cannot buy into the religion does not give me license to bad-mouth it. We are not judged by what we believe. We will instead be judged on what we do with our belief.
To my experience, Mormons are nett-contributors. They tend to do good things, just like buddhists and Seventh Day Adventists do.
If Religion is a gauge of Character (it isn’t) then Mormonism gets a tick in the box from me.
*DieHard*
~”Where in the Bible do you get the notion that we are Lucifer’s sibling? Lucifer was an angel. Angels and humans are not the same.”~
It’s a doctrine that differentiates us from Orthodox Christianity. There are supporting verses in the Bible; but it is largely drawn from what we believe to be modern revelation.
~”Why do you baptize children in the names of dead people?”~
Small children do not participate. Young men and young women can begin participating in vicarious baptisms for the dead at age 12.
The reason for it is that we believe that a person must receive certain ordinances, of which baptism by proper authority is one, in order to return to God. We share this trait with most Christians, for whom baptism is a necessary ritual.
But what of those that never have the opportunity? Are they to be condemned? What kind of justice would that be?
We believe that God has commanded us to perform this work in vicarious fashion for those who are dead. Such people have a choice in the life to come as to whether or not to accept the ordinance; but the opportunity is to be given to all.
It’s a great testament to the mercy and love of God for all His children.
The principle of vicarious work for others has ample Biblical precedent, the most striking of which is Christ’s vicarious atonement for our sins.
Then, I guess I am okay then. Thanks!
Faith is greater than deeds.
John 3:16
~”Jews in no way blaspheme the Father as you Mormons do.”~
...sigh...
Have a good evening, Enosh.
~”...what I’d like to know is this - how much of Mormonism does he actually believe?”~
By all accounts, he’s a good Mormon, so I would imagine he believes it all.
Another question is, how much of what anti-Mormons say Mormons believe does he believe?
The two are not the same. Unfortunately, we have seen a great deal of the latter on this thread.
Great post, DieHard. Thanks.
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