Teaching a new doctrine in light of the Virginia Tech massacre

The Examiner ^ | 27 April 2007 | Marc Danziger

[Star Traveler]

You said — “There is one shooting where the victims fought back and reduced the number of deaths that directly correlates with the VT shooting. In 1998 Kip Kinkel went to school and opened up on his classmates shortly after he had murdered his parents at home. In that case instead of everyone running helter skelter or hunkering down waiting to be shot he was tackled by other students and the shooting was ended. One of those students was wounded but that did not stop him from helping take down the shooter.”

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Well, this school, Thurston High School (333 North 58th, Springfield, Oregon 97478) is just a few blocks away from where I visit a friend down there. It’s on the edge of town, on the way out of town, heading towards the Cascade Range of mountains (we’re talking wilderness out there, further out of town). That area used to have a lot of loggers around there. Of course the logging has gone way downhill since the time it was big in Southern Oregon. Springfield is on the (if you will) “wrong side of the tracks” — which some might consider a rougher side of town. It’s actually on the other side of I-5 from Eugene, Oregon. They’re much more conservative over there and I believe, quite a few more hunters and former loggers. So, if there was going to be an area where they would “take down” a shooter, this would be it. Let’s say that they know how to use guns around there. And so, that probably made a difference.

But, you’re not going to find it that way, around most of the country. I would say Springfield, Oregon would be a place they would do that. If it happened on the other side of I-5, in Eugene (about 10 miles west), it’s questionable whether anyone would have taken him down.

Now, watch..., I’m probably going to get both Eugene residents and Springfield residents after me! LOL

Hey, Southern Oregon has a significant “survivalist community” down there. They’re ready for the “end of the world”, I understand... I think they’re ready for World War III down there. Some are stocked up with guns and ammo and food to hold out for a year or more! At one time, I even believe they had one of the largest KKK groups around. So, it’s “rough and ready” down there...

Many people outside of the state probably wouldn’t know that, and I’m sure I’ll even have some from inside the state that would deny it, but Southern Oregon is a hot bed for survivalists “ready for bear” down there... If you mess around down there, you better be “ready for bear” too.

And Eugene/Springfield would be on the northern edge of that (at the southern end of the Willamette Valley). Springfield probably more “rough and ready” than Eugene. You better watch yourself around that part of the country.

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And then — “Mindset is what its all about. If you decide beforehand that you are not going to be a passive victim then most likely you aren’t.”

Mindset might be what’s it about — but it’s also, and “mainly” about *reality*. By that, I mean that this is *not the reality* out there. Now, you may have wishful thinking about that and you may “decry” the situation — but — regardless, the *reality* is that this is not the way it is in most places.

Decry all you want, but it’s not going to change the “status quo” around the nation. I’ve explained the situation in Springfield, and that is the “exception that proves the rule”. The “rule” is exactly the way it happens most of the time.

[Star Traveler]

You said — “This is why I have a problem with the administration for not immediately alerting the students that a killing had just accurred in a dorm. Even if they had not shut down the campus, the students would have realized the sounds were gunshots. They may have acted differently and saved lives.”

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So very true. It would have definitely made a difference. I imagine that they’ll be reviewing those rules.

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And then — “The heroes of Flight 93 only took the actions that they did because they were aware that the “rules” for dealing with a hijacking had changed.”

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Exactly! Those people knew what they were in for. So, it was die one way or die another way. In their case, they were basically told it was a 100% certainty, according to what was already known on the news from the other planes. This was a *very significant* factor.

Otherwise, if they had *not* known this. They would have been like all the other planes that have had this happen. You would be docile and just wait until it was resolved. The less you did — the better you would fare (in the past).

[ItisaReligionofPeace]

Some did attack? Do you have a source for this. I have actually read the opposite; in fact, this article notes that there was no evidence of anyone fighting back.