April 12, 1861 The War Between The States Begins!

Civil War.com ^ | Unknown | Unknown

[Lee'sGhost]

Salute!

[Lee'sGhost]

Wait. Let me do this proper.

DETAIL! Atten.........shuunn!

PRESENT...................ARMS!

Orrrrdeeeeer................ARMS!

Thank you, Mister Watie.

[Ciexyz]

Here's raising a toast in memory of the brave fighters on both sides of that terrible conflict.

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

The gentility of former wars was forcefully replaced with "total war".

When was this alleged "Golden Age" of warfare? From what I can see of history, it only existed in storybooks.

[stand watie]

you are WELCOME! i fugured that you didn't see the post.

free dixie,sw

[stand watie]

you are WELCOME! i figured that you didn't see the post.

free dixie,sw

[stand watie]

your OPINION has been NOTED & DISCOUNTED to it's TRUE worth = ZILCH.

laughing AT you, TROLL!

fyi, the DAMNyankees INVENTED the CONCENTRATION CAMP.(some like me, who lost ancestors to the DY WAR CRIMINALS, at hellholes like Point Lookout say that the DYs also invented the DEATH CAMP, where NON-whites, Jews, Quakers & other religious/ethnic minorities were targeted for ELIMINATION.)

fwiw, 4 of the 5 members of our family were MURDERED on the first day that they were "guests of the lincoln administration", at Point Lookout DEATH CAMP,because they were "other than White persons".

to quote one of the DY colonels, "It was cheaper to kill them than it was to feed them".

free dixie,sw

[TexConfederate1861]

I agree!

[DanielLongo]

It was the day when generals and lords were on the battlefield with their troops. Early example is Richard I of England on Crusade in Palestine: on the highway to Joppa he saw in the valley below and at some distance a caravan escorted by a small contingent of Templars who had formed a battle "square" which signified a fight to the death. Their opponent was over 1300 Ottoman light cavalry. He turned reign to support them and after being warned by his attendants that he would surely die and that the death of the Templars would be an honorable one, he threatened to cut off the arm of the one holding his horse by the bridle.

aside: Richard was once greeted by a Saracen embassy, one of whom displayed the sharp edge of his Demascene blade by cutting though a silk cloth (strongest natural fiber/impossible with Crusader steel) as it floated in the air. The messenger then said to the effect,"so will we cut through the strongest of armies". Richard walked up to the messenger's camel and with one blow struck off the beast's head. He didn't need to say anything. The strength of that King was legendary.- Payne,"The Dream and the Tomb", A history of the Crusades.

His next quote attributable to Matthew Paris was,"I sent those men here. If I do not die with them here today, may I never be called King again." I will spare you the romantic flourishes. Suffice it to say that the Templars, emboldened at the site of their King charging toward the fray with his company behind routed an enemy of over 20 times their number. I could go on and on, but to cite the Civil War specifically, their was great gentility shown and admiration on both sides for their enemies. Obviously most of the generals fought together during the War with Mexico, but the common soldier would cheer and weep for the other side during great battles and tragedies like Vicksburg or Kennesaw to name a few. Grant and Sherman closed that war with hammer strokes. With very few exceptions those who now start the wars no longer fight in them. Think of all the Senators and Congressmen from national and state houses who joined the fight on either side. You have never seen that since. Sure they may site age or training, but how old do you have to be to move equipment ashore during the Normandy invasion or crossing no man's land in WWI? Men became cogs in the machinery of war. During the Middle ages and on through the High Renaissance you still saw the largest casualties among the nobility and lesser gentry. In fact it is history, and not Hollywood films that bears my assertion out. I don't recall seeing any Senators or Congressmen vacating their seats to serve in Iraq.

At any rate, this wasn't meant to be an exposition. I just wanted to offer a rebuttle. All in friendship.

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

I understand your point, but disagree that the Crusades, to take your example, was a genteel affair. The chronicles of the time are replete with tales of butchered civilians, sacked and burned towns, and so on. So why does it not qualify as “Total War,” while the Civil War does?

[DanielLongo]

I concede your point on the brutality of all wars. I guess my emphasis was on the modern detachment of those who wage and orchestrate war. In the Crusades, for instance, the military commanders and political leaders (kings, lords, sultans, etc.) put themselves in harms way and were participant in all of the passions of war. The same held true with the Civil War. The exception of course were the Union generals starting with Hooker and epitomized with Grant. They did not make the charges with their men into the teeth of the enemy like Hood, Jackson, Ewell, Hood, Garnett, Armistead and other Confederate generals did-with honor. During the Crusades, Richard and Saladin may have dined and parlayed together while enjoying such things as sherbet cooled from ice from distant mountain tops. But they also strapped on their gear and put themselves in harm’s way with their men. They were not mere spectators. I do not use the word “gentile” to refer to “gentleness”. Indeed I use it as it originated- to describe in a word a more notable class of men; those who led by action and discipline. A true “gentleman” was not above or apart from action. He was defined by his personal commitment to ideals. The testament of this personal commitment, honor, was vouchsafed by both the willingness and the act of personal sacrifice. They did not send their soldiers to war and then sit in guilded halls to thump their chest with pride upon reports of valiant charges and engagements. They were with them, to praise their men and assume all moral responsibilities before God. They did not send their men to hunt enemies house to house and jail them on suspicions of evil intent while they traveled at leisure and ate with dignitaries. They fought. They did not make their men face any hardship they did not endure with them. When their own persons were in jeopardy, the tough decisions were made. Modern war is played at dice. Men are resources. When an American president is not ready to kill any number of the enemy before one of his own countrymen, he no longer deserves their trust or respect. Perhaps this made my position clearer.

[Ciexyz]

Please put me on your ping list for "War Between the States/Civil War" issues.

[x]

I concede your point on the brutality of all wars. I guess my emphasis was on the modern detachment of those who wage and orchestrate war. In the Crusades, for instance, the military commanders and political leaders (kings, lords, sultans, etc.) put themselves in harms way and were participant in all of the passions of war. The same held true with the Civil War. The exception of course were the Union generals starting with Hooker and epitomized with Grant. They did not make the charges with their men into the teeth of the enemy like Hood, Jackson, Ewell, Hood, Garnett, Armistead and other Confederate generals did-with honor.

Bobby Lee didn't exactly lead Pickett's Charge, either.

I'm not sure that you're comparing apples with apples, generals of a certain level of rank and responsibility with others of the same rank and responsibility.

After Braxton Bragg and Joseph Johnson achieved their highest ranks, were they out in front of the fight?

[TexConfederate1861]

My Pleasure!

[Ciexyz]

Bump for discussion.

[stand watie]

BUMP for a FREE dixie REPUBLIC!

free dixie,sw

[Ciexyz]

Do I hear a rebel yell with that declaration, brother?! :-)

[stand watie]

why of course. my beliefs favoring a NEW & MUCH improved dixie REPUBLIC are well known to most people here.

i do NOT believe that the southland can long HONORABLY remain UNequally yoked to the elitist/LEFTIST/socialist/SELF-righteous/sanctimonious DAMNyankees.

fwiw, i believe in my heart that my 16YO niece will live to breath FREE dixie air in a new & MUCH improved dixie nation. sadly,as i am in my sixth decade of life, i won't live to see dixie FREEDOM.

free dixie,sw

[Ciexyz]

It's obvious that our country is changing, and not always for the better. However, we must leave our future in God's hands. In any case, I applaud you for still retaining your sense of vision, my friend.

[stand watie]

we are ALL in the hands of The Almighty.

free dixie,sw