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Can liberty survive the income tax?
RenewAmerica.us ^ | April 12th, 2007 | Alan Keyes

Posted on 04/12/2007 7:28:36 AM PDT by EternalVigilance

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To: AlanSC

Hey, how you doin’? A visit to Mike’s is in order next week I think.
Later.


61 posted on 04/12/2007 9:51:53 AM PDT by Jason_b
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To: EternalVigilance
The income tax is utterly incompatible with freedom.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

62 posted on 04/12/2007 9:53:45 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: goldstategop
The income tax is utterly incompatible with freedom.

Bears repeating...

63 posted on 04/12/2007 9:55:33 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (With taxation, the "how" is even more important than the "how much," if you care about liberty...)
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To: Jason_b
There was a court case that said that the 16 bestowed no new powers of taxation on the Congress. Congress did not have the power to lay unapportioned taxes before the 16th, and Congress had no power to lay unapportioned taxes after the 16th.

You are simply misunderstanding Brushaber. There was no new power, as Congress already had the power to tax incomes. The purpose of the 16th was to permit the elimination of the distinction of direct and indirect taxes.

Congress did not have the power to lay unapportioned taxes before the 16th, and Congress had no power to lay unapportioned taxes after the 16th.

Read the decision before you read the books from some tax protester who is serving 5 to 10.

Frederick Bastiat in "The Law" explained it very well in his little book.

Bastiat recognized that governments should protect the freedom to earn a living, and he surmised that each attempt to coerce revenue from the productive was to some extent counterproductive to a free society. But he also recognized that a free society cannot exist by itself without structure. If he were alive today, he would not be in favor of the income tax, but rather a tax on consumption, as that would not hinder the production of goods and services as much as an income tax does. But so what?

Sir, that is just false and everyone here knows it.

You mean all the great economists of the world here on FR? Most of us here on FR can distinguish between communism and capitalism. That the government sometimes engages in tactics more indicative of socialism than capitalism does not make us a communist economy by any stretch of the imagination.

Whatever way it is, anything you say is suspect. Communist sympathizer.

I suppose when ignorance is one's only tool, he will resort to such inane personal attacks. You seem to be no exception.

64 posted on 04/12/2007 10:02:11 AM PDT by MACVSOG68
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To: Jason_b
I bet we have an IRS employee here.

Actually, we have someone who can read and write here, and can use a tad of logic. I don't assume simply because you can log into FR that you are in possession of any of those three abilities....to any measurable degree.

65 posted on 04/12/2007 10:05:56 AM PDT by MACVSOG68
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To: MACVSOG68
But so what?

So, you readily, and repeatedly, have ceded the argument, and acknowledged that a tax on consumption is superior, but just don't care.

66 posted on 04/12/2007 10:07:47 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (With taxation, the "how" is even more important than the "how much," if you care about liberty...)
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To: MACVSOG68

So, you readily, and repeatedly, have ceded the argument, and acknowledged that a tax on consumption is superior, but just don’t care.

Are you in Republican leadership? /s


67 posted on 04/12/2007 10:09:36 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (With taxation, the "how" is even more important than the "how much," if you care about liberty...)
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To: EternalVigilance
While that is true, Alan Keyes has never made a single one of their arguments.

How did Keyes get into this discussion?

When it comes to taxes, the "how" is even more important than the "how much," if you care about liberty.

There are many good reasons for abandoning the income tax and going to a consumption tax, but liberty has never entered my mind as one of them. Almost every law in the Nation involves a curtailment of some type of liberty. That is why they are called laws.

68 posted on 04/12/2007 10:09:51 AM PDT by MACVSOG68
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To: MACVSOG68
How did Keyes get into this discussion?

He wrote the article we're discussing.

69 posted on 04/12/2007 10:11:00 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (With taxation, the "how" is even more important than the "how much," if you care about liberty...)
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To: MACVSOG68
but liberty has never entered my mind

Dang. Try not to be so close-minded.

70 posted on 04/12/2007 10:11:49 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (With taxation, the "how" is even more important than the "how much," if you care about liberty...)
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To: EternalVigilance

ROTFLMAO!!!


71 posted on 04/12/2007 10:12:00 AM PDT by Zon (Honesty outlives the lie, spin and deception -- It always has -- It always will.)
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To: MACVSOG68
Almost every law in the Nation involves a curtailment of some type of liberty.

Laws that infringe on unalienable rights are not laws at all...they are in fact lawless edicts.

72 posted on 04/12/2007 10:12:56 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (With taxation, the "how" is even more important than the "how much," if you care about liberty...)
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To: EternalVigilance
Well, I'll give you points for brains for admitting that you can't. But, in practice, aren't you doing so anyway?

No. I can freely and logically look at a legal position without siding with either party. So because I tell you that you are wrong about the 5th Amendment in your arguments against the requirement to file a tax return does not imply that I am somehow pro-income tax. In fact I am not.

73 posted on 04/12/2007 10:14:49 AM PDT by MACVSOG68
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To: EternalVigilance; MACVSOG68
This is just too good not to make fun of. Talk about irony!! 

MACVSOG68: Actually, we have someone who can read and write here, and can use a tad of logic. I don't assume simply because you can log into FR that you are in possession of any of those three abilities....to any measurable degree. 65

MACVSOG68: How did Keyes get into this discussion? 68

He wrote the article we're discussing.69

MACVSOG68, how does your foot taste? Shall I relode so you can shoot yourself in your other foot.

74 posted on 04/12/2007 10:18:11 AM PDT by Zon (Honesty outlives the lie, spin and deception -- It always has -- It always will.)
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To: MACVSOG68

What I hear you saying is that the citizens of this country exist economically at the pleasure of government and whatever it is that they decide they’ll allow you to have and keep.

The very existence of the income tax is, in a practical sense, an acknowledgment that government owns every single thing that you can produce, either by your skill or by the sweat of your brow. Any portion you get to keep is based on their whim.


75 posted on 04/12/2007 10:19:02 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (With taxation, the "how" is even more important than the "how much," if you care about liberty...)
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To: MACVSOG68
No. I can freely and logically look at a legal position without siding with either party.

Ah. You're an attorney.

76 posted on 04/12/2007 10:20:00 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (With taxation, the "how" is even more important than the "how much," if you care about liberty...)
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To: MACVSOG68
So because I tell you that you are wrong about the 5th Amendment in your arguments against the requirement to file a tax return does not imply that I am somehow pro-income tax. In fact I am not.

Kinda like Giuliani and Clinton "hate" abortion?

77 posted on 04/12/2007 10:21:17 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (With taxation, the "how" is even more important than the "how much," if you care about liberty...)
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To: EternalVigilance
So, you readily, and repeatedly, have ceded the argument, and acknowledged that a tax on consumption is superior, but just don't care.

I don't know which argument you think I ceded to you; certainly not the silly 5th Amendment one. As I told you before, I would prefer a tax on consumption over an income tax for several reasons. But in the end, I will still likely pay about the same. I think a consumption tax will be good for the economy, but I also recognize that such a major break from one system to the other will likely never happen, just as the social security privatization will likely never happen. As for not caring, there are many serious issues facing us today that I do care about. This isn't one of them. This is more for my amusement.

78 posted on 04/12/2007 10:22:44 AM PDT by MACVSOG68
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To: EternalVigilance
He wrote the article we're discussing.

Heck EV, I thought it was yours. Over the past two or three years, I have continued to downgrade my opinion of him. Maybe he will do his homework next time.

79 posted on 04/12/2007 10:25:23 AM PDT by MACVSOG68
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To: EternalVigilance
but liberty has never entered my mind
Dang. Try not to be so close-minded.

Oh, I take liberty very seriously, but if I pay too much attention to every kind of protest here on FR involving differing opinions of liberty, at the end of the day, I'd mentally be in a gulag.

80 posted on 04/12/2007 10:27:34 AM PDT by MACVSOG68
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