Posted on 04/08/2007 11:39:14 PM PDT by freedomdefender
>• First, the reliability of the Scriptures. Did you know that we have more than 5,000 manuscripts of the Greek New Testament? That is a huge amount. Some manuscripts date to within 100 years of the autographs (the original writings) and all agree with each other. (Yes, there are minor differences, but there are so many copies available we can look at them and get a very accurate picture of what the New Testament writers said.) What this means is that the Bible is extremely reliable as an historical document.<
There are lots of ancient stories written about from all over with the stories varying only slightly. The Illiad is one example.
While what you say is true, there are well over 5,000 copies of the New Testament in the original Greek. Of the Illiad you mention, we have approximately 600 copies still intact. The fact that of these 600+ copies, there is around a 5% variation (or error rate), leads one to believe they are correct copies. The error rate for New Testament transcripts is closer to 99%. What does that tell you about it’s authenticity? If you take the numbers and add in the translations to other languages, there are over 20,000 copies of the New Testament. Frankly, dismissing it because it is hard to believe is foolish at best, and fearsome in the extreme, at worst.
What???? Please show me a single reference where Pliny, Tacitus or Josephus ever talked about dragons or magical lands.
"Dead Or Alive?" Resurrection, (Part 1 of 8)
"Fact Or Fantasy?" Resurrection, (Part 2 of 8)
"Just The Facts, Ma'am" Resurrection, (Part 3 of 8)
"Even Unto Death" Resurrection, Part (4 of 8)
"Make Your Choice" Resurrection, Part (5 of 8)
"What Has This Got To Do With Death" Resurrection, (Part 6 of 8)
"Hope For The Sting And The Victory" Resurrection, (Part 7 of 8)
"Believing A Lie, Believing The Truth" Resurrection, (Part 8 of 8)
The resurrection of Jesus has been called the linchpin of Christianity. Indeed, even the apostle Paul wrote that if Jesus did not rise from the dead, there was no faith to be had. What incredible words! Some who wrongly dichotomize “faith” and “facts” might expect the apostle to say, “Well, if we find out that Jesus really did not rise, we’ll keep believing it because it brings comfort and besides, what would it do to Christianity?” Yet Paul says, in effect, if Christ is still dead, if he is still in the grave, let’s hang up the whole thing. Eat, drink, and be merry!
No historical event has been so subjected to scrutiny as Jesus’ claim to have risen from the dead. This alone is an indicator of the event’s importance. So many ingenious ways have been concocted to falsify it—from the swoon theory to the disciples’ self-delusion—that it’s almost humorous. I am amazed at the lengths to which some scholars have been willing to go in an attempt to debunk the resurrection, while scores of other religious figures (such as Krishna, Buddha, or Mohammed) have been left totally unstudied. Interestingly enough, an average student in India, for example, does not even know when Krishna was born or if indeed he ever was. At the same time, he or she has theorized about Jesus quite a bit. This is an ironic phenomenon.
Of all His claims, His promise of His resurrection was understandably the most controversial. Yet, to be certain, it was the ultimate justification of His message.
A little off topic, but people have been convicted of murder with less evidence than exists for the risen Christ, and Christianity as a whole.
I am totally convinced that Jesus was the Son of God (and man), and that I am offered eternal life with Him and the Farther. Makes living on this planet, at this time really easy...
5.56mm
Also, R.C.Sproul
I'm listening to his Dust to Glory..tapes....an overview of the Bible....
It is most excellent
I’m a Christian, but I have trouble with using these arguments to convince non-believers.
It’s hard enough to convince people of something when there’s solid evidence in its favor. It’s even harder when you present a document such as The Bible and say “It’s true because it’s in here, and this doesn’t lie.”
To them, it’s the ultimate in circular reasoning, and if they’re not inclined to believe in the first place, they’ll just roll their eyes and walk away.
To me, the most effective witness is the way you live your life, and they way you treat other people. Jesus did not talk out of a book: He spoke from His heart, and led by example.
If you want to prove Christ lived, died, and rose again, then live your life as if you believe it with all your heart, and be a witness in your own life, death, and rebirth.
Bump for later
You said: Religion is based on belief. If you believe it who cares what other people think? The minute you accept the cult of science or history and use their arguments, you cease to be a christian. Your faith isn’t strong enough for you to believe in it a priori.
***
I am no theologian, but I am a Christian. What I believe, I believe by faith, but most religions, including Christianity, have factual bases as well as faith-based beliefs. Jesus is a historical figure, who actually existed. Belief in His existence does not require faith, except faith in the accuracy of historical records (which may involve more faith than having faith in God’s existence). I think that the writer makes some pretty good points in the article. Are they scientific proof of the resurrection? Perhaps not, but they are the kinds of proof that people rely upon in their daily lives for believing whether something occurred or not. Dying for something one believes in is pretty strong evidence for me, and most. I don’t believe what suicide bombers believe, but I would say that THEIR belief if pretty strong, if misguided. Those who claim to have been a witness to the fact of Christ’s resurrection, not to mention His appearance AFTER the resurrection to them, would not likely been willing to die the kind of death they died if they didn’t really witness those events.
The Roman and Jewish authorities had pretty strong motivation to disprove the resurrection story, and each had the ability to do so by producing Christ’s body— if they could have done so. They had at least as much motivation to do so as to have Him crucified in the first place. It is not credible that the Roman guards would have been complicit in effecting or aiding in the theft of the body.
But there is always room for doubt, and that is what makes faith faith. I believe. I believe.
You said, in part: There are lots of ancient stories written about from all over with the stories varying only slightly. The Illiad is one example.
***
I don’t think anyone ever believed that The Iliad represented a true account of facts. This is akin to saying that news accounts are not true because fiction is being written today, and sometimes published by the same publishers.
Right now there are suicide bombers training to die in the name of Allah: a god that the Christians reject.
Suicide bombers are not dieing for what they know to be a lie. This sixth argument has always been compelling to me. These were humble men who witnessed these events. They claim to have seen and eaten with the risen Christ and many of them died in ways far more horrible than a suicide bomber does. It is a matter of faith, however.
ping
Apologia is not just ineffective, it’s counterproductive. Like the previous poster said, the best testament to your religion is how you live your life. Do the Amish get into the how many angels on the head of a pin style arguments? O course not, their faith is unshakable and it shows in everything they do.
“10. During that time period, the last person in the world to make up a story about an individual resurrection, or claim that a man was God, or worship him, would be a Jew. It is far beyond anything they would expect to experience in life, and absolutely in conflict with everything their culture had taught them since childhood. They would have no reason to expect any Jew to believe it.
“
Where do you think they got the idea?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resurrection#Judaism
“These were the direct participants of history, not followers of a text. Again the question is asked, why endure torture for refusing to recant?”
I dunno, ask the Jews who were tortured by Christians during the Inquisition.
Amen
“The error rate for New Testament transcripts is closer to 99%. What does that tell you about it’s authenticity? If you take the numbers and add in the translations to other languages, there are over 20,000 copies of the New Testament. Frankly, dismissing it because it is hard to believe is foolish at best, and fearsome in the extreme, at worst.”
There’s a latin phrase that describes your logic.
“Non sequiter.”
“Plato mentions Atlantis one time and 1600 years later people that don’t believe Jesus was the Messiah including scientist are still hopelessly searching for it”
1600?
1652 years if you want to be exact. look it up.
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