U.S. assails Chen's moves in direction of independence

The China Post (Taiwan) ^ | 3/7/07 | The China Post

[WLR]

Better DEAD than RED.


W

[zook]

Tell that to the people living freely and prosperously in Hong Kong (and Beijing and Shanghai).

[WLR]

Actually China is for sale to the Highest Bidder. They cannot fight their way out of paper bag and never could.

If we Kow Tow to their Militarists we encourage them and discourage those who would like China to get back on the peaceful path or mercantilism which had been their strength throughout time..

When it come to Liberty.. one is either willing to pay the price or deserves their chains.


Stand Up Taiwan you have "nothing to fear but fear itself"

Or are the words of Liberty only for the Occidental?

W

[jmc813]

Washington called President Chen Shui-bian's pledge to push for independence "unhelpful" Monday and reiterated its stance against independence for the island Beijing regards as a renegade province.

I really wish the State Department weren't such pu$$ies.

[WLR]

You mean the Millionares who fled to Canada..

Or those who could not take their wealth from Hong Kong who everyday lose a little liberty and whose "freedom" exists at discretion of the Party Central Comittee?

W

[zook]

Liberty is for all, as has been demonstrated by the growth of liberty in China over the past 20 years.

Under that circumstance, under the present circumstances, TI is not worth a drop of American or Taiwanese blood.

[zook]

Hong Kong is a free city. And don't kid yourself--everyone's liberty exists at the pleasure of those who control armies. And, to borrow one of your own arguments, if those who control Chinese armies are such totalitarians, why have they not already crushed Hong Kong? Why do they continue to allow the expansion of freedom in Beijing and Shanghai?

[WLR]

You mean the freedom to Harvest of human organs of exicuted prisoners for profit..

Or the Murder and imprisonment of Christians and FalunGong Members...

Perhaps the Liberty of forced Abortions?


W

[jmc813]

And, I remain skeptical of many of the accounts I've read about religious persecution

Are you saying the Roman Catholic Church is lying?

[zook]

Though all of these things have existed in China at one time or another, the freedom I'm talking about is freedom of speech, freedom to start one's own business, own one's own land, criticize the government, leave the country, attend church, etc.

You exaggerate the waning negatives and completely ignore the waxing positives.

[BibChr]

What? We *don't* support independence? What?

[zook]

The Catholic Church is mainly pissed off over China's refusal to recognize Rome as the only authority over Catholicism in that country.

That's a fight over religious orthodoxy, not religious freedom.

[Moonman62]

China is still Communist in name, but their actual system is something more fascist, at least it appears so to me. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't know about China, but that reminds me of Castro who was always a nationalist, who never cared for communism, especially the Soviet kind. Communism was merely a means to an end, especially his hatred of the United States.

[zook]

America does not currently support the right of Taiwan to secede from "China."

[jmc813]

We may protest at the UN, we may send some Chinese diplomats home, but not one American soldier, sailor, or pilot will die for TI.

Did you support us fighting for thee freedom of Iraqi people?

[zook]

In my opinion, the political and economic conditions under which the Iraqi people were forced to live over the past 25 years were far more horendous than those of the Chinese. Moreover, had it not been for 9/11 and for Iraq's connections to Islamic extremism, I don't believe we would have gone to war.

[jmc813]

The Catholic Church is mainly pissed off over China's refusal to recognize Rome as the only authority over Catholicism in that country.

Well, I would hope you'd agree that the Vatican is a much more competent authority on matters of Catholicism thaan some ChiCom government goons.

That's a fight over religious orthodoxy, not religious freedom.

No, they fear Christianity because it is wholly incompatible with their mindset. If you'd like some Biblical examples, I'd be happy to dig some up.

[jmc813]

You exaggerate the waning negatives and completely ignore the waxing positives.

Hitler made the trains run on time.

[WLR]

As you say...

When Chairmen Mao stated

"All power comes from the barell of a Gun"

He was right

He was also just repeating the words of Thomas Jefferson.


You did not mean too... but revealed all..

Do not be deceived as the Islamofacists, Stalinists, Nazi's, Japanese Imperialists before you.

My Liberty nor the Liberty of any American exists at the pleasure of those who control the Army or even our Government that is just an illusion.

We Americans are a One Hundred Million man Milita.. we have more men and women under arms in the United State than any other country or combination of countries in the world.

Our Government including the Army exists at our consent.
Not the other way around..

"We the people" are the undisputed power and irresistible force of our nation.

"One Nation Under God"

Our leaders know it and they don't much like it either..

So bar your teeth and make us laugh...

We are Not Of This World and Money is not our God;

To paraphrase;

As our Master ..........Died to Make Men Holy
We stand ready to....... Die to make Men Free


Don't be afraid... unless you are a tyrant.or would be:)


W

[frankiep]

Thank you for injecting some sense into this. Unfortunately many people here seem to think that if everything isn't perfect right at this moment than it means that things must be horrible. However the reality is quite different. Anyone who expects any country, let alone one with over a billion people, to fundamentally change from oppression to freedom overnight is not living in reality.

Is China a free country? No. Are there alot of changes that still need to be made before China can be considered a free country? Absolutely. Has China made a great deal of progress towards this over the past 20 years? Of course.

I particularly like your analogy to America's early days. If a country with a completely free society were to have looked at America in 1845 they would not have seen a country where its people were living in freedom and prosperity. Instead they would have seen a country that explicitly allowed the enslavement and "ownership" of other people. Yet today this country stands as a beacon of human rights, and political and economic freedom. I suspect that China's move towards this kind of society will only continue.