Posted on 01/31/2007 1:12:31 PM PST by primeval patriot
They should give us all back the money we worked for. Instead of giving it to ILLEGALS and scumbags that don't work.
Happened to me once (98), now I avoid La. like my Ex.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/drugs/special/forfeiture.html
Rudy Ramirez never expected to become a statistic in the War on Drugs when he set off to buy a used car, $7300 in cash at the ready, in January 2000. Ramirez, who lives in Edinburg, Texas near the border with Mexico, had spotted a listing for the used Corvette in a magazine and wanted it badly enough that he talked his brother-in-law into accompanying him on a thousand mile road trip to Missouri to make the purchase. When Ramirez was pulled over by police in Kansas City, however, the tenor of the trip changed.
"They asked if I had any money with me, and I said yes," recalls Ramirez. "I didn't think they would take it away. I had nothing to hide." But the trajectory of the rental car, and the piles of cash, suggested otherwise to police--who suspected him of trafficking drugs from the Mexican border. As Ramirez tells it, he was detained at the side of the road for hours while his car was thoroughly searched and inspected by a drug dog. "They kept asking me, `Where are the drugs?'" he recalls. "I told them they had the wrong guy."
The Drug Enforcement Agency's file on the case indicates that Ramirez gave officers confused statements about both the money and his destination, and that his extremely brief stay in a Missouri motel looked suspicious. What's more, the drug dog "alerted" on parts of the car, indicating that drugs could have been there at one time--which, since it was a rental car, may or may not have anything to do with Rudy Ramirez.
Still, the search turned up no drugs of any kind, and the officers finally told Ramirez that he was free to go--but not before confiscating $6,000 of his money in the name of the federal war on drugs in a process known as "forfeiture." Despite check stubs that he says prove that the money came from a car accident settlement reached several months before, and bank records showing that it was withdrawn from his account just prior to the Missouri trip, Ramirez has, to this day, been unable to get his money returned. He shakes his head as he describes it. "All I want is my money back," he says.
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Less than 10Gs, and a US citizen
If he's here illegally, and buys something at a store, has he actually STOLEN? after all, he couldn't legally buy stuff if he's here illegally.
If he's here illegally, and Maryland gives him a driver's license, and he drives, should he be pulled over and arrested for driving illegally? After all, he's illegal, how could he drive legally if he's here illegally?
Hey, we should give him a ticket for crossing the street, because he's here illegally, so he must have crossed the street illegally.
Better, let's arrest him for trespassing. After all, he's here illegally, so he can't be legally on the streets, right?
The COurts have ruled that you cannot arrest an illegal immigrant for "trespassing", even though he is in the country illegally he still has a LEGAL right to be in the streets in public.
Extending that COURT ruling, if he can legally occupy the streets, he can legally work, and legally drive, and legally buy stuff from a store.
There was a guy who went on a cruise with his family. Post 9/11, they do a lot of extra checks on people when they travel. Turned out he had an outstanding warrant in Florida, where the tour ended, and he was in fact supposed to be in jail all these years. SO they arrested him when he got off, and put him in jail.
Therefore, his entire life he was ILLEGALLY out of jail.
But no court, no prosecuter, no rabid anti-illegal-immigrant type, EVER thought to argue that he should have to turn over to the government his company, his house, and all the money he ever made, since he did it all "illegally" because he was "illegally out" of jail.
The law tries not to multiply offenses. If you are going 80 in a 30 MPH zone, you are doing so now, and now, and now. And you are also going 75, and 70, an 85, and 60, etc., at some point to get to 80.
But a judge would kick out of court a prosecuter who tried to bring multiple speeding charges for each speed you went through to get up to 80, or for speeding at each 1-foot mark on a road for the 2 miles you were speeding.
The crime is being here illegally (actually not much of a crime, the penalty is deporting you back to where you belong). We don't charge you for being here illegally each second you are here, thus making you illegal many times, nor do we charge you for everything you do while you are here (that would otherwise be illegal) simply because you are here illegally.
You may want your legislature to write laws to make it illegal for illegals to do stuff, and if they did, I guess it would make those things illegal. If you want, you can make sure the law says it is illegal for illegals to work, AND have that law specify that part of the punishment is the forfeiture of all earnings from the job.
But the law does not say that at this time, and you wouldn't likely get many people to support such a law (actually maybe we would, and maybe that would help discourage illegals).
I seem to remember there was a time when it wasn't illegal for a minor to purchase cigarettes, but it was illegal to SELL them to the minor. Something about not wanting to make minors criminals.
You can't be that daft.
I said that, under current law, a legal act does not become illegal simply because the person doing it is not currently in the country legally. I just explained it in a previous post.
The courts have ruled that we cannot arrest illegal immigrants for trespassing on streets that otherwise people are legally on. IN other words, simply being in the country illegally does NOT make other legal actions illegal.
And as I said, I GUESS you could try passing a law that makes it illegal for an illegal immigrant to collect money for work performed while here illegally, but that's not the law now. The law targets the employers.
The republicans just tried to strengthen the penalties against employers who hire illegals, and the democrats rejected the amendment.
Illegals should be thrown out of the country if they are caught, because that is the law. But the law does not include confescating all their money.
Funny thing is, if this guy had been CAUGHT IN THE AIRPORT, like while buying his ticket, and discovered to be an illegal immigrant, we would have PAID to send him home, AND he would still have his money, because the law does not include confescating his worldly possessions.
His attempt to leave, rather than getting captured and deported, cost him his life savings, which he worked for for 11 year performing REAL service for REAL americans.
BUt that's what the law says, it could happen to you or I as well, and has nothing to do with him being illegal.
But you would do it. You would commit criminal acts, and you would feel justified, because it saved your life, and didn't hurt anybody. You'd pay back the people for what you ate, and to fix their door, and you wouldn't doubt your character.
And we would all understand, that when your life is threatened, you could do illegal stuff and not be a bad person.
But you cannot understand how a man could see the chance to work hard and earn something for his family, and take that chance even though crossing our border without papers is illegal, and still not be a person of evil character. No, instead you say every second of his life from the moment he crossed the border is a criminal second, and illegal act, for which he should pay with everything he owns.
I reject that world view.
No, I don't. I'm hardly excusing anything, I'm merely saying what my opinion is of the facts, which is that I think he was scared of being caught as an illegal, so he didn't fill out the paperwork, but that he did not understand that not filling out the paperwork could cost him everything, because he didn't read the fine print.
It wasn't a comment about him being illegal, it was my take on the question of how he could claim ignorance when there are signs everywhere that say "you must declare all cash over $10,000. I think he read the signs, but not the fine print that tells what the penalty is for not doing so.
I never said that the money was taken from him illegally. It is clear he paid the penalty allowed by the law (which could also throw him in jail).
I said that the law sucks, and it is WRONG to take his money away. If he was a legal immigrant, I don't think too many people here would be arguing with me, and I'm saying the issue has nothing to do with him being illegal, and should be decided without regard to his legal status.
Because our immigration law calls for his deportation, but NOT for the confiscation of all the money he made while he was there.
If he believed that filling out the paper work would incriminate himself, why is he not protected by the Fifth Amendment?
I agree, there is nothing unconstitutional about this law. I just don't like it, and wish we changed it, although I'm shooting at the entire class of laws that invoke administrative takings (through judicial review), without a trial or finding of guilt.
Realise that it is not a criminal penalty. They simply seized the "contraband", by judicial order. No crime, no criminal record, no way for the guy to appeal the order.
I don't know if money orders count as cash.
But as I just said in another comment, if he had been caught as an illegal when he walked through the gate (before filing his paperwork) the government would have arrested him as an illegal, and PAID to send him back home, WITH all his money.
Until he signed that form, he was free under law to take the money home with him. When he signed the form that said he DIDN'T have the money, the government took the money from him. A $49,000 error.
In order to legally work in this country a non citizen or resident alien must be authorized to do so. If they are not authorized to do so then they are breaking the law. Pose all the spin you want to but that is the basic reality. Deny it all you want to.
Tresspass claims? Go tell a certain Sheriff Arpaio that mmmmmk?
You can deny there is specific laws asto employment in this country by foreign nationals if you want to but the fact is they are what they are. You have to be authorized to work and if you aren't then you are working illegaly. It is that simple even if you don't want to admit it.
http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=1847c9ee2f82b010VgnVCM10000045f3d6a1RCRD&vgnextchannel=1847c9ee2f82b010VgnVCM10000045f3d6a1RCRD
It's amazing sometimes what we don't see, that is so clearly evident. We have an amazing capacity to ignore stuff we aren't interested in. Too many warning signs all over and you end up ignoring them all.
Some states allow illegals to get driver's licenses. It is easy enough to get the identification necessary to look legal, without stealing it. A little harder since 9/11, but still pretty easy.
Come on, guys, there are 20 million illegals living here, most of them working in jobs like this. You think they are all doing this nefariously, under the table, in some exceptional state where they would trivially be caught? We don't have national id cards, and it is way to easy to get your own id.
Social security numbers are only a little harder. There is a web site that will allow you to enter a SS number and it will give you basic information. Oddly, the site is supposed to be a company competing to show how we could verify legal status, but I guess they didn't realise an illegal can use the site to find "legal" numbers. The site will tell you the state and age of the number, which means it's easy to put in a dozen numbers and find something to use.
BTW, I have no tolerance for an illegal that uses someone else's SS number. They should forfiet all SS money, half to the government and half to the person they stole the SS number from.
We give up a lot of rights to get on an airplane.
The government had no right to do this....unless they don't believe in the Declaration of Independence anymore.
Guess What?
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