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Navy Relieves Sub Commander After Deaths
AP via SFGate ^
| 1/19/7
| ANNE FLAHERTY
Posted on 01/19/2007 5:47:40 PM PST by SmithL
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To: mgstarr
You haven't a clue what you're talking aboutYou are correct he missed the white wash part.
21
posted on
01/19/2007 6:44:23 PM PST
by
org.whodat
(Never let the facts get in the way of a good assumption.)
To: doc1019
>>>>>"Having spent over ten years in the USN, I beg to differ. (68-78)"<<<<<<
I do beg to differ with your assessment, a loss of confidence in ones ability to Command is not a Criminal Offense.
In those 10 years (68-78) did you get a chance to review the UCMJ?
TT
To: org.whodat
23
posted on
01/19/2007 6:49:09 PM PST
by
SmithL
(Where are we going? . . . . And why are we in this handbasket????)
To: mgstarr
The operative words here are "avoidable accident". Anytime that the word avoidable is part of the message the Captain of the vessel is responsible and will ultimately suffer the consequences, the Captain of the ship (boat) is ultimately responsible for what happens on his ship.
24
posted on
01/19/2007 6:50:23 PM PST
by
doc1019
To: TexasTransplant
In this case sending desk jockeys (from the Pentagon) into the field will net the same result as sending Durbin, Hillary or (Name an Idiot), they are mostly holdover Wannabe Politicians with an Agenda.I don't send them to command. They have no authority.
I send them to turn wrenches. To teach them that a bust on paper is why I have an Air Force Reservest that works for me still on the road tonight. He has to be in San Antonio tomorrow then has training for a month. He didn't need this crap; not tonight. I try to take care of my people.
The screw-up designer is safe at home. Monday will not be his best day.
25
posted on
01/19/2007 6:57:59 PM PST
by
Eaker
(You were given the choice between war & dishonor. You chose dishonor & you will have war. -Churchill)
To: TexasTransplant
Career killer yes
part of UCMJ, no.
26
posted on
01/19/2007 7:02:21 PM PST
by
doc1019
To: doc1019
>>>>>"The operative words here are "avoidable accident". Anytime that the word avoidable is part of the message the Captain of the vessel is responsible and will ultimately suffer the consequences, the Captain of the ship (boat) is ultimately responsible for what happens on his ship"<<<<<<
I agree 100% with that assessment but did you notice that the two that died are the COB and a 2nd Class, these are exactly the people that the CO would take advice from... not Order To and they would also be the first to disobey an Unlawful Order if they so deemed it to be so (unsafe or otherwise unlawful).
Micromanagement from above kills far more than trusting subordinates, routine complacency picks up the slack.
TT
To: TexasTransplant
Yes, and the UCMJ holds the commander of a unit totally responsible for anything that happens during his stint as the commander.
28
posted on
01/19/2007 7:05:57 PM PST
by
doc1019
To: Eaker
>>>>"The screw-up designer is safe at home. Monday will not be his best day"<<<<<
Stick it to him... SATURDAY
It is going to be cold and wet, nothing like getting a feel for it when you can experience the "real deal"
(Loved your Home Page, especially the part about life)
TT
To: doc1019
>>>>>"Yes, and the UCMJ holds the commander of a unit totally responsible for anything that happens during his stint as the commander"<<<<<<
We agree again but... What was he charged with? He received a letter and was relieved for "loss of confidence"
TT
To: TexasTransplant; doc1019
Technically, being relieved wasn't a punishment. The letter was the punishment, and being relieved was a consequence, in much the same way that never being promoted isn't considered a punishment.
31
posted on
01/19/2007 7:20:21 PM PST
by
SmithL
(Where are we going? . . . . And why are we in this handbasket????)
To: Criminal Number 18F
We'll never know what really happened on the deck of that boat, I reckon. The sub was putting off the British harbor pilot. The topside crew was still involved in that when the sub cleared the breakwater and exposed the topside crew to the full force of the sea conditions beyond the breakwater that included 50 MPH winds and 20 foot swells.
Result: Four crewmembers washed overboard and two of them drowned or battered to death against the sub's hull.
The CO and the XO should have either ensured that the pilot transfer was completed in a timely manner before the sub cleared the breakwater or, if that was not possible, aborted the pilot transfer, ordered the topside crew and the pilot below and taken the pilot along for a patrol.
British authorities expressed shock that the pilot transfer had not been completed well before the sub cleared the breakwater.
32
posted on
01/19/2007 7:21:16 PM PST
by
Polybius
To: TexasTransplant
Dereliction of duty comes to mind (even though we will never hear
military hush, hash).
The only thing I can suggest is to watch the outcome
my bet is that the commander of this vessel will soon be looking for employment in the private sector.
33
posted on
01/19/2007 7:22:29 PM PST
by
doc1019
To: doc1019
He'll retire, as will the XO.
Both will suffer other losses. Th CO had been selected for advancement to Captain, and the XO had been selected for command. Neither will happen, now.
34
posted on
01/19/2007 7:29:26 PM PST
by
SmithL
(Where are we going? . . . . And why are we in this handbasket????)
To: SmithL
Seems like small justice for the death of two sailors, but you are probably right.
35
posted on
01/19/2007 7:33:19 PM PST
by
doc1019
To: doc1019
>>>>"Dereliction of duty comes to mind"<<<<
Dereliction of Duty is a very specific charge and is well defined, if it were the case here it would have been front and center.
As I understand this Officer may already be looking for employment in the private sector, his choice or not, MHO it will be the Navy's loss.
TT
To: TexasTransplant
The Navy is a non-forgetting entity. Anything that makes it look bad is soon buried. Im sure that this is true in all branches of military service.
37
posted on
01/19/2007 7:46:53 PM PST
by
doc1019
To: doc1019
To: doc1019
Not Right, but True. Perception and Politics have always been a part of the job to be addressed by those in Command, I would not like to be one ever accused of judging based on the information reported by AP.
I am very predictable if forced to choose I will pick the Military over AP every time.
TT
To: Eaker
I would like to be a fly on your wall come monday morning LOL.
40
posted on
01/19/2007 8:08:28 PM PST
by
HANG THE EXPENSE
(Defeat liberalism, its the right thing to do for America.)
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