Flood Made Britain An Island 'In 24 Hours'

The Telegraph (UK) ^ | 9-25-2006 | Tim Hall

[thomaswest]

get translated into the world flooded, with an ark. I really think that's a stretch to assume local floods resulted in global flood stories. Yet you believe that it rained for "40 days and 40 nights". And you really think that. And you have no idea of how liquid water condenses from vapor. No semblance of a notion about the heat released?

You can believe in gods or faeries to your heart's content. And disbelieve the understandings of physics to your heart's content. Your narrow personal predelictions have nothing to do with a divine understanding.

[thomaswest]

Wegner and continental drift is a even better example.

[Finny]

Yeah, you can't help but be amused when someone refers to a 10,000 year-old ice core sample as having "long range" information on global climate history!

[thomaswest]

We just found a second code in DNA last month. I don't think we understand DNA well enough to make the claim you make for it.

Hmm... I recall when creationists were saying that DNA was a work of satan, there was no truth in it. Henry Morris and Duane Gish at ICR railed against DNA for 40 years.

Now---exactly what do you mean by a "second code". If you have any basis with any evidence, perhaps you can enlighten us.

What, exactly was the first code? What is the "2nd code"?

[DannyTN]

"The Black Sea event is the most likely source for the "global" flood story, but that event wasn't global. There's a lot of "creative storytelling" in this one."

I know that's been proposed, but it doesn't make sense. You don't need an ark for a black sea event. You simply herd your flocks out of the way. You don't get a year long flood out of the black sea either

"The only evidence for a global flood is the Bible, and I'm sorry to have to tell you the creationist geologists who were looking for the proof gave up about 1830."

They didn't give up, the prominent Scriptural geologists died off and noone rose to take their place. But the long earth geologists as the following link shows, were influenced heavily by their world views.

Some of the ideas that propelled long age geologists to prominence over scriptural geologists have been disproven. The debate over rapid stratification, polystrat trees and other things has shifted through the years.

"History is confirming that the Scriptural geologists were right. Lyell’s uniformitarianism was the ruling dogma of geology for almost 150 years until the late 1970s, when ‘neocatastrophism’ began to emerge, and with it came reinterpretations of the geological record.23 Lyell’s way of interpreting the rocks simply does not fit the facts and evidence of catastrophism at a global level is becoming increasingly obvious, even to many evolutionists."

The origin of old-earth geology and its ramifications for life in the 21st century

Implications of erosion rates for long ages

[thomaswest]

hundreds of flood stories and make them all tie into a "global" flood which wiped out all extant populations

This explains why we have Holy water and baptism and chlorinated water supplies.

[Coyoteman]

Sorry, son. You're seeing some natural events through a biblical spectrum which has been long since been bypassed.

The evidence is simply not there. No water canopy or other hokum will make it work. There is simply no evidence in a number of fields which would have to be be there if there was a global flood.

With that, good night all. Its late and I haven't shaved.

[thomaswest]

Your personal revelation of "truth" is noted.

The reality of nature trumps personal fantasies.

[dr_lew]

I was just going by the cited pdf. I did a seat-of-the-pants ID on a reference to an "upland channel" mentioned in the paper, so I certainly could be "all wet" ( heh heh . ) I was using Google Earth, which continuosly displays the elevation of the cursor, and it matched the statement of the paper that the channel re-entered at 4280 ft. , so I thought that was it. Looking at Fig. 10 of the paper, the "Lake Channel" referred to seems to be a few miles down stream from my jpeg, but it does appear to be part of the same channel.

[thomaswest]

Probably anti-evolution Christians and anti-evolution Muslims have more in common than evolutionist Americans.

The "ruling dogma" for 16 centuries had to do with a "divine right of kings" as interpreted by one church. The USA, coming after the Reformation, threw off this Old World stuff of hierarchy and blind faith without real evidence. The Bible never mentions democracy or individual rights.

Evolution is grand unifying concept of nature, and includes natural law. Evolution deniers are like all those long forgotten on the wrong side of history.

[dr_lew]

We had a Katrina and a Tsunami, but that doesn't get translated into the world flooded, with an ark. I really think that's a stretch to assume local floods resulted in global flood stories.

It could have been a unique regional flood associated with the late Ice Age, so that the myths all refer to the same event, misapprehended as global.

[thomaswest]

the prominent Scriptural geologists died off and noone rose to take their place. But the long earth geologists ....Some of the ideas that propelled long age geologists to prominence over scriptural geologists have been disproven. The debate over rapid stratification, polystrat trees and other things has shifted through the years. "History is confirming that the Scriptural geologists were right. Lyell’s uniformitarianism was the ruling dogma of geology for almost 150 years until the late 1970s, when ‘neocatastrophism’ began to emerge, and with it came reinterpretations of the geological record.23

I imagine we can all agree on your point of view: "It is a wet bird that flies by night."

Some of us have curiosities about "polystrat trees". Are these in the woods where we go hiking?

Is "the ruling dogma of geology for almost 150 years" different from Catholic dogma for 1400 years?

Do you accept the Reformation? Is there a Protestant view of evolution that you agree with?

[thomaswest]

misapprehended as global.

You say in 3 words an idea that is very true.

A private belief in one god about one "divine law" is selfish. The public knowledge of our environment and how we are related is part of science education and our future.

[Virginia-American]

And to mimic the AiG site: It may be, it is possible that, the kangaroos were carried on faerie wings to their new home.

Possibly, but there are other scenarios: Kangaroos of the Middle East Article by Dr. Richard Paley

Furthermore, satyrs are mentioned in the prophesies of Isaiah as properly translated in the KJV, and thus we do find kangaroos in the Bible. Isaiah prophesies the destruction of Babylon, warning that it will not be inhabited, but that "satyrs shall dance there" (Isa. 13:21 -- note that "dance" here is economically translated from the Hebrew raqad, which has a fuller meaning of "to skip/spring about or to leap"). This prophesy proves that at least some kangaroo stragglers could still be found in the Middle East up to the fall of Babylon in 539 BC.

[wyattearp]

It does stay in the channel, which is a record of the meandering course of the river. Cf. Horsehoe Canyon in Utah:

Of course it stays in the channel. It CUT the channel. The river wandered around, always flowing in the easiest direction possible. Water isn't intelligent, it just flows downhill. Hard rock on one side of the flow, soft rock on the other side, it will erode the soft side first, and go that way. It flows downhill.

I don't think that we disagree here. The Grand Canyon was cut by the river that runs through it, not by the imaginary flood that supposedly flowed over it. If there was such a flood, it would have flowed around it: It could not have flowed over it.

According to the whole "flood theory" nonsense, the Grand Canyon was cut by waters flowing over it, which would have been impossible had it not existed in the first place, for the waters to flow through. Otherwise, the water would have flown around that particular hill.

The only logical conclusion is that the ground was rising as the water was flowing, and that the water chose the easiest way through. That way is called erosion. It happened simultaneously. The hill rose, and the water flowed in the only direction that it could; downhill. The water cut the Canyon. No great flood, just slow and simple. The hill rose, and the water adjusted. It never left the canyon that it was carving because there was nowhere lower for it to go.

[Virginia-American]

... It has been a staple of creationists and Bible literalists since then, but nobody else takes it seriously. The evidence is simply not there.

Not exactly. It wasn't a staple of anything until Henry Morris wrote his "Genesis Flood" book in 1961. This was 7th-day Adventist apologetics at the time, and wasn't taken "seriously" by anyone else until maybe 20 years later.

I hope ol' Henry remembered his hydraulic engineering in the "afterlife"; it might be kinda, uhh, warm where is now, considering how many people he led away from Christianity.

[Virginia-American]

... Probably anti-evolution Christians and anti-evolution Muslims have more in common than evolutionist Americans. ...

Yep. The Kansas school board retained an expert from Turkey, who had helped to destroy science in his own country.

It's rather like the fact that Mussolini and Hitler recruited Communists much more easily than they recruited free-market classical liberals.

[thomaswest]

LOL. And then they derive some "morality" from it. Preachers amaze me, too.

[thomaswest]

What? Are you saying that satyrs, minotaurs, and unicorns are not on your acceptable list?

Are they against some dietary proscription in your religion?

We always thought Unicorns could catch Cheerios on their horns. And that virgins could have babies.

[thomaswest]

You sound sane. And informed.

What are you doing here?

Now let me explain the pixie theory of {poof}. There was a Flood, somewhere, perhaps. Most creatures were disfavored--for no particular reason. But some were saved, for no particualr reason. And then something else happened, and sure enough there were cows on green Alpine pastures in Switzerland and ranches in Texas. And the people were exceedingly great joyed by all this.

The opinion of cows is not recorded. IDiots at the Discovery Institute, however,...