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Evolution Is Practically Useless, Admits Darwinist
Creation Evolution Headlines ^ | 08/30/06 | Creation Evolution Headlines

Posted on 09/13/2006 3:52:47 PM PDT by DannyTN

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To: muawiyah; Ichneumon
BTW, there are technical experts in the use of language, and no one was called a drunk. You're reading that into a very clear statement that wasn't pointed at anybody.

Sorry, but when someone says "hey you, it's too early to be in your cups" that means you're calling them a drunkard.

641 posted on 09/14/2006 5:17:26 PM PDT by Liberal Classic (No better friend, no worse enemy. Semper Fi.)
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To: Senator Bedfellow
There seems to be a correlation between anti-evolutionism and oil-from-sandism. Interesting convergence, no?
642 posted on 09/14/2006 5:19:20 PM PDT by Liberal Classic (No better friend, no worse enemy. Semper Fi.)
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To: muawiyah

Excuse me, but you made a claim that can be easily checked through a cursory glance at the evidence.

If you did not do this cursory glance, then you obviously have no idea what you are talking about.

As a liar, at least you are not considered ignorant, just dishonest, now I just consider you ignorant.

Not sure which I despise more.


643 posted on 09/14/2006 5:20:13 PM PDT by Jaguarbhzrd
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To: Liberal Classic

Since I didn't say that, it's clear that's not what I meant.


644 posted on 09/14/2006 5:20:22 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
Since I have no intention to "deceive" you or anyone else, it's simply not possible for me to utter a "lie".

ROLF!

645 posted on 09/14/2006 5:20:22 PM PDT by Liberal Classic (No better friend, no worse enemy. Semper Fi.)
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To: Liberal Classic
Might I suggest the term: 'pious fraud'

They're lying, but it's for our own good.

646 posted on 09/14/2006 5:22:02 PM PDT by Dinsdale
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To: Jaguarbhzrd
You should despise your mother much more for not having discussed with you the necessity of communicating in a manner that will enable you to keep your teeth into adulthood.

So, just what is your problem?

647 posted on 09/14/2006 5:22:27 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
"The virus line is not part of what had been the concept of "common descent"."

Why would you say that?

If our common ancestor with the chimp experienced a number of ERV insertions then those changes would be part of both Homo and Pan common descent.

648 posted on 09/14/2006 5:23:05 PM PDT by b_sharp (Objectivity? Objectivity? We don't need no stinkin' objectivity.)
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To: Liberal Classic
Are you going to tell me your a techie with a sense of humor?

Say "No, it isn't so" ~ we'll never know what to do if you folks start cracking smiles.

649 posted on 09/14/2006 5:24:00 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
You're another Bill Clinton.

I didn't call you a drunk / It depends on what the meaning of IS is... Be honest - You called him a drunk!

You seem miserable. Twenty years with the Post Office can do that. I know, I own a bar a block from a Post Office.

650 posted on 09/14/2006 5:24:56 PM PDT by wireman
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To: muawiyah

You said, and I quote.

"Ichy my boy, it's too early to drink and get all surly."

Now, what was that supposed to mean?

The rest of the post was pure drivel, as if you are angry at the man for knowing more then you know.

It is called attacking the messenger, and most people that do that are attempting to discredit the messenger, so that the message will be ignored.

Pretty dishonest way to debate, and here you are trying to give me lessons.

Perhaps you should consider listening to what you tell others.


651 posted on 09/14/2006 5:25:18 PM PDT by Jaguarbhzrd
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To: Jaguarbhzrd; muawiyah

ERV's are assumed, not observed. They do not produce viral particles, but are identified by the presence of sequences that code (or once coded) for viral proteins, including gag (structural proteins), pol (viral enzymes), and env (surface proteins), as well as telltale long terminal repeats.

The ERV 'dating' conclusion is dependent on single organism infections with random integration into the genome and subsequent move to fixation.

They present serious problems for evolution since there are thousands of these things in the human genome alone and the substitution cost to move them all to fixation is tremendous.

The 'best' evidence for evolution is always in the least-understood areas because they allow the greatest level of 'interpretative' overlay.


652 posted on 09/14/2006 5:26:29 PM PDT by GourmetDan
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To: muawiyah

Since you had no intention to "amuse" it is simply not possible for you to be "funny."


653 posted on 09/14/2006 5:26:41 PM PDT by Liberal Classic (No better friend, no worse enemy. Semper Fi.)
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To: Liberal Classic
What do you do with this marvelous technology? Call people drunks.

That is what trolls do.

654 posted on 09/14/2006 5:28:30 PM PDT by balrog666 (Ignorance is never better than knowledge. - Enrico Fermi)
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To: muawiyah

My mother taught me to treat those that I respect, with honor, and respect.

You have neither earned those 2 items, nor are proving worthy of such.

And yes, I still have all my teeth, thank you very much.

You have proven, without a shadow of a doubt, that you are either ignorant, or dishonest, you have also proven that you are a rude individual. I respect none of those traits, therefore you have not earned any sort of respect from me.

Respect is to be earned, not given.


655 posted on 09/14/2006 5:28:44 PM PDT by Jaguarbhzrd
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To: b_sharp
There's some point of initial insertion, yet prior to that the chimps/cum humans had been doing just fine without them ~ they weren't part of the "package", nor were they necessary.

"Common descent" meant one thing BEFORE that finding, and something else AFTER that finding.

656 posted on 09/14/2006 5:29:02 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Coyoteman; Suzy Quzy
Coyoteman posts the skull chart, so here's the debunking.

When examined, there's not a single candidate for a transitional in the whole bunch!! All you have is FLUFF!

Evo's post that chart without any disclaimers every time someone says there are no ape to man transitionals. But as I will show this is FREUDENSCIENCE at it's best.

Let's remove the clutter, the normalization of size, and the skulls that were so badly damaged they could have been reconstructed into anything and see what's left....


And I do mean clutter.

That's the best you could do? Please!!! If you aren't embarrassed already, then you are unshameable! But wait there's more....

To rely on them as a support for transitionals is more imagination than hard evidence. The fact that you have to rely on such pitiful specimens as I will show them to be, speaks volumes about how little evidence for ape to human transitionals there is.

Skull E

Habilis skull E, that was found crushed totally flat under a layer of limestone and underwent extensive reconstruction, massive warping of the individual parts is acknowledged. It's probably either an Australopithecus or a Boisei like the other skull that was found in the same location. A skull that damaged is a blank slate for an Evo's imagination to run wild with.

Smithsonian on Skull E.

(E) OH62 was initially assigned to Habilis because of the similarity of the palate to that of skull Stw53, However, Kuman and Clarke list several major morphological traits of Stw 53 that they believe warrant its inclusion in the genus Australopithecus, including teeth that are very large and a braincase that is frontally narrow and restricted. So if Stw53 is a Austalopithecus, then OH62 probably is too. However scans of the inner ear, seemed to indicate human. So I'll grant you that there is ambiguity about E, but the specimen is so damaged that it shouldn't be considered evidence of anything except evolutionist desperation.

Skull F 1470

D and F weren't initially recognized as Australopithicus. F is skull ER-1470, which was reconstructed out of 100 pieces. In true evo bias fashion, it was first reconstructed to have a flat human like face, making it a "transitional", every evo's heart's desire.> But once the Creationist, Christopher Hummer, was finally allowed to examine it and started pointing out similarities to Austraopithecus skulls, it was reconstructed again and determined to be nothing but a large brained Australopithecus.

The Rise and Fall of skull 1470

Skull D

Inner ear scans of D (Skull 1813) and F indicate that both were knuckle walkers like Australopithicus. That puts them squarely back into the camp of Australopithicus and out of the Habilis category.

Human Skulls G-N

Why so many human skulls? It's called FLUFFING. Put enough human skulls in the chart, and maybe people will think you have a transition going on. You could find as much variability in Human skulls using 21th century skulls as you have demonstrated here. Nevertheless, let's take a closer look.

Skull G - Erectus

There are 17 defining traits for Erectus. All 17 can still be found in the human population. A group of over 200 modern Australian Aborigines were found to share 14 of those 17 traits with Erectus. Except for the presumed age of Erectus skulls, there's really no reason to consider them to be different from Modern Humans. How different is the cranial-vault thickness of Homo erectus from modern man?

Skull I - Broken Hill #1 aka Rhodesia Man.

I especially like the inclusion of (I) the badly diseased Bunker Hill skull. Even the Smithsonian acknowledges the skull is diseased. Dr. Jack Cuozzo examined and x-rayed the skull and says the skull "cries out disease" and is thickened from severe acromegaly (excess secretion of growth hormone in adulthood).

What's more Dr. Cuozzo says the hole in the skull appears to be an 8mm gunshot wound complete with exit wound, which would make the skull a modern skull. (It was found at the bottom of a well.) Originally that skull was thought to be less than 40,000 years old, then it was promoted to 125,000 years old. And a French museum now promotes it as 400,000 years old. If Dr. Cuozzo is right, it's less than 100 years old. The British Museum hasn't conceded yet to Cuozzo's finding about the bullet hole. However, the diseased state of the skull is acknowledged by all. And Cuozzo points to evidence that the British Museum appears to have published pictures that hides the evidence of how badly diseased the skull is.

Whether or not there's a bullet hole, to include a badly diseased skull in a visual chart like this as representative of anything is FauxEvoImagery.
Dr. Cuozzo on the Broken Hill skull 1

Neanderthals - Skulls J-L

Why are there 3 Neanderthals, when they are considered human and not ancestral to modern human? They've lost their special status as their own species, along with the Evo fauximagery of hairy stooped over men. They had larger craniums than modern humans a fact that you can't tell because of the deceptive normalization in your skull chart.

There are 3 due to Fluffing. There are 3 Neanderthals, for the same reason that there are 8 human skulls. Because without Fluffing, your chart reduces to nothing, except the crushed remains of evolutionist dreams.

Is this really the best you can do? Two skulls (E&F) crushed beyond recognition painstakingly reconstructed and one skull (I) so diseased, it's inclusion in a visual chart like this is ludicrous.

Other Characteristics.

A review of other characteristics show that all fossils are either clearly in the ape category or clearly in the human category. Brain size is the only category that appears to approach intermediate between the Australopithecus ape and modern humans. Link for the article from which the following table is pulled follows:

Table 1: Summary of the results of analyses of characteristics of fossil Homo species [After Table 7 in Wood and Collard, Ref. 3]. 1) body size, 2) body shape, 3) locomotion, 4) jaws and teeth, 5) development and 6) brain size. H = like modern humans, A = australopith-like, I = intermediate ? = data unavailable.

Species name

1

2

3

4

5

6

H. rudolfensis

?

?

?

A

A

A

H. habilis

A

A

A

A

A

A

H. ergaster

H

H

H

H

H

A

H. erectus

H

?

H

H

?

I

H. heidelbergensis

H

?

H

H

?

A

H neanderthalensis

H

H

H

H

H

H

In order to fend off the usual bogus anti-creationist accusations of quoting out of context, Table 1 (above) has been reproduced from Table 7 in Wood and Collard exactly as it appears in their work. As can be seen, only one major constellation of traits in the specimens in question is in fact characterized as I (intermediate) between australopiths and Homo sapiens. All of the others are either unknown, clear-cut australopith in morphology, or clear-cut Homo sapiens in morphology. Now, had the hominins actually been a series of transitional forms gradually progressing from australopith to modern Homo sapiens (as commonly portrayed in textbooks), many if not most of the entries in Table 1 would instead be I (intermediate).

But it gets even worse for the evolutionist. Note that the individual hominins do not even qualify as a mosaic of australopith and Homo sapiens attributes. There is no increase in the number of human traits in the ‘series’. Most or all of the six constellations of traits dichotomize sharply along the lines of all-australopith or all Homo sapiens in terms of morphology.

The non-transitions in human evolution - on evolutionist' terms

Conclusion

That chart reduces to australopithicus ape fossils and human fossils with no evidence of intermediaries. Somewhere there is a quote of evolutionists admitting that australopithicus is more distinct from both humans and chimps than humans and chimps are from each other.

Without tricks like normalizing the skulls and fluffing, you would never dare post a chart like this. That you have, should embarrass you to no end.

This isn't representative of "transitionals". It is however, representative of the sloppy work of Dr. Theobold, who published this farce as part of his alleged 29 evidences, which are every bit as flimsy.

For Reference - FauxEvoImagery


(A) Pan troglodytes, chimpanzee, modern
(B) Australopithecus africanus, STS 5, 2.6 My
(C) Australopithecus africanus, STS 71, 2.5 My
(D) Homo habilis, KNM-ER 1813, 1.9 My
(E) Homo habilis, OH24, 1.8 My
(F) Homo rudolfensis, KNM-ER 1470, 1.8 My
(G) Homo erectus, Dmanisi cranium D2700, 1.75 My
(H) Homo ergaster (early H. erectus), KNM-ER 3733, 1.75 My
(I) Homo heidelbergensis, "Rhodesia man," 300,000 - 125,000 y
(J) Homo sapiens neanderthalensis, La Ferrassie 1, 70,000 y
(K) Homo sapiens neanderthalensis, La Chappelle-aux-Saints, 60,000 y
(L) Homo sapiens neanderthalensis, Le Moustier, 45,000 y
(M) Homo sapiens sapiens, Cro-Magnon I, 30,000 y
(N) Homo sapiens sapiens, modern


657 posted on 09/14/2006 5:29:27 PM PDT by DannyTN
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To: wireman
Good for you. Actually, it was 38 years with the post office, and not any of it involved sorting or delivering mail.

Somebody had to write the rules for the place you know.

658 posted on 09/14/2006 5:30:13 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Jaguarbhzrd

You've just been psychoanalyzed via the internet. Welcome to FR!


659 posted on 09/14/2006 5:30:41 PM PDT by Liberal Classic (No better friend, no worse enemy. Semper Fi.)
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To: Jaguarbhzrd
Ichy had turned the sub-context of the thread into a polemic against me personally, so direct your complaint to him.

Lord help us if he starts out that way and only later gets surley.

660 posted on 09/14/2006 5:31:36 PM PDT by muawiyah
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