Climate And The Collapse Of Maya Civilization

Those underground water holes are pretty amazing, sort of like miniature salt domes, a rounded "top" with a hole in the middle, and a lake underneath.

Admittedly it's been a long time since I last visited the Yucatan but at that time, I was struck by the fact that I seemed to be the only person in a long time who had visited these places.

I was being guided by a Mayan man who spoke no English, and I spoke almost no Spanish, and felt somewhat uneasy because nobody else was with us, but he was extremely respectful. I wanted to see these places, he wanted the money, and I was probably half again his height, anyway.

The linked article contains another link to an article on Easter Island (Rapa Nui). Serious claims have been made that human-caused deforestation caused the collapse of civilization on that island. The article suggests otherwise.

According to David Lupher's book Romans in a New World: Classical Models in Sixteenth-Century Spanish America (University of Michigan Press, 2003), one of the first Europeans to write about the Mayan ruins at Chichen Itza was a man who had accompanied the second Spanish expedition to the area (1531-34), Vicente Palatino de Curzola (Vinko Paletin from Korcula, Dalmatia), who concluded that the writing he saw there must be Carthaginian, although he admitted he could not read it. He believed he had found evidence in ancient sources that the Carthaginians had reached the Antilles.

Thanks. We both are well convinced that climate change happens. Probably even that it is happening. We boht know there is a need to adapt.

The only real issue is whether humans are contributing to it to such an extent that we need to alter the behaviour to prevent the change from becoming too extreme.

It is a good debate. At FR those who say "no" are in the majority. In the real world, they are vastly outnumbered and losing quickly as policy takes shape and changes are made.

policy takes shape and changes are made.

The only way these policies and changes can stop global warming is by forcing the earth into a new path around the sun.

Of course the earth is warming -- it's going through that phase of a 30,000 year cycle. And when global warming peaks, the earth will begin the 30,000 year cooling cycle. Ice caps will expand, glaciers will cover much of the northern and southern hemispheres again, civilization will move back to the equatorial regions, and Uggs will be an important fashion accessory.

Fortunatly, I will not live to see that.

Yes, the climate is changing. But we may well live to see the change from hot to cold, and the cycle is around 100,000 years, not 30,000 years. Moreover, once the heat cycle peaks, which happens rather rapidly, the drop to cold is very quick. Just saw a good graph, but don't have the computer skills to share it.

One mechanism that is potentially very dangerous is the North Atlantic Oscillation (NAO). It works like this: warm water flows north along America (Gulf Stream), water reaches arctic and freezes, this concentrates the salt and the heavy salt filled water sinks to the ocean floor and cycles back to the tropics, where it rises, is heated and starts all over again. Meanwhile this warm water flow helps keep Europe warm enough for civilization. Look at a globe or map. Europe is much further north than we are.

When the Arctic ice no longer forms, concentrating the salt then the NAO slows and stops. No more Gulf Stream, no more habitable Europe. New Ice Age? That is my big fear. Whatever we can do to slow the current warming should help, but probably only delay the process. Unfortunately, we are about due for the next Ice Age.

On a side note. The famous wells (cenotes) of Yucatan have formed at the edge of the great crater left by the meteor that killed the dinosaurs 65 million years ago.

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