Help me with an Israel question

Steve

[Alouette]

Ben Gurion said: "The land is big enough for all of us." Israel-haters and extreme Zionists have altered that to have Ben Gurion saying: "The land is not big enough for all of us."

[kenavi]

People live in one place. It is a problem for them when another group takes over, or pressures them to leave their homes of several generations, if not more. In the case of the birth of the state of Israel, it was a resolveable problem, except that the Arab states intentionally perpetuated it by not making peace, in which case Israel would have paid to help resettle refugees or emigrants leaving Israel.

The existence of a resolveable problem, however, is not the same as the absence of any problem. The founders of modern Zionism and the fathers of modern Israel recognized there was a problem, and sought to solve it. Extreme Zionists today deny there was any problem to resolve, and say that Israel has free reign to impinge on and overwhelm non-Jewish life in what they call "Judea" and "Samaria".

It is not a given that the U.S. should support that view. You risk losing U.S. support if you support a maximalist position for Zionism. The "Palestinians" have never lost an opportunity to miss an opportunity. Zionists shouldn't make the same mistake.

[Alouette]

The situation in the Mideast today is not caused by "maximalist Zionism" and it will not be resolved by any territorial concessions made by Israel. The problem is caused by the maximalist position that Israel should not exist on any land, at all.

[RightWhale]

Watch this 48 hour ceasefire. The question is likely to be moot long before the 48 hours is up.

[kenavi]

I agree that the Arabs are the problem.

I disagree with the maximalist Zionist position: "This war will not end until the Arabs recognize that God gave us this land." (founder of first permanent Jewish settlement in West Bank)

[Alouette]

I disagree with the maximalist Zionist position

You can disagree with it, but it is irrelevant.

[kenavi]

You can disagree with [the maximalist Zionist position], but it is irrelevant. [Because Arabs want to destroy Israel no matter what the Israelis do.]

What Israelis do and don't do is very relevant to how their neighbors behave.

The "Palestinians" passively lived under Israeli occupation for a decade (1967-1977). It was only when Israelis began aggressively settling in the West Bank that widespread popular resistance grew, metasizing into the insane terrorism of today.

Now, the Muslim fanatics have built an infrastructure of terror that depends on keeping the fire going. Israeli withdrawal does not satisfy them. Israelis can justify their withdrawal from Lebanon and Gaza only on the basis of whether it made Israel more secure, or less secure. And that is debatable.

[When do we get liberated?]

arguement came up again, can you give me link....well anything but the Jerusalem post would do