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Many Americans Back Higher Costs For People With Unhealthy Lifestyles
Wall Street Journal ^ | July 19, 2006 | WSJ ONLINE/HARRIS INTERACTIVE HEALTH-CARE POLL

Posted on 07/20/2006 4:35:25 AM PDT by rdax

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To: tacticalogic

No. In an ideal world, smokers would "pay" by having their benefits cut or their insurance premiums raised.
What do estimate the chances of this happening are, vs smokers ending up paying the cigarette taxes and higher insurance premiums?

Agreed, however here's a better question. What do you think are the chances that Mr Brightside will get a reduction on his health insurance vs Mr Brightside paying the same amount of money, and the unhealthy folks paying more and the insurance companies pocketing all of the money?


261 posted on 07/20/2006 2:53:28 PM PDT by JohnD9207 (Lead...follow...or get the HELL out of the way!)
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To: gogeo
That's a consequence of removing economic considerations from health care.

I'm afraid you'll have to offer me more of a connection to the point.

My position was simply that insurance premiums should be, and for a great percentage of activities, are, based upon the risk assumed by the insurance provider. The argument at hand was this situation should be even more the case, i.e., smoking, voluntary obesity, and other higher risk lifestyle choices should bear even more of a premium increase to cover the increased risk.

If your issue with "moral hazard" is that failure to increase the premium for these higher risk health choices has increased their likelihood, then I can not, nor would I, argue.

However, my position is strickly based in statistical probability. That is to say, there should be no insurance penalty for an activity or lifestyle choice that has no statistically discernable increase in risk.
262 posted on 07/20/2006 2:53:35 PM PDT by Lucky Dog
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To: Gabz

Not to mention some extremely LIBERAL posts, made by supposed "conservatives".


263 posted on 07/20/2006 3:00:46 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: AmericanInTokyo

If in fact you are an American living in Tokyo and you have job, then it is obvious you don't mind the rest of us taxpayers subsidizing your life there. Am I correct thinking that $60,000+ of your income is exempt from US income tax while you work overseas? That seems like a huge subsidy from the rest of us, maybe you should pay the same taxes as the rest of us. You are hypocrite.


264 posted on 07/20/2006 3:07:50 PM PDT by bfree (Liberalism-the yellow meat,)
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To: Tax-chick

Oh, there are lots more: There are the "provider groups," like chiropractors, "behavior health" counselors, etc., who lobby insurance commissions to require things like inpatient alcoholism treatment. Then there are the ideology groups, who insist every policy cover birth control pills, abortion, AND infertility treatment. There's the gay pressure groups, who don't want underwriters to know whether an applicant is HIV-positive.

About a year ago Rush Limbaugh had a congressman on as a guest. He explained the same as you. That people are forced to pay insurance for services or procedures they'll never use. Forced by politicians colluding with businesses and special interest groups.

An adjunct to the title of the article that started this thread would read (if most Americans were aware of it to the same extent they have been made aware of politically incorrect lifestyles that are unhealthy -- reality is not that some lifestyles are less healthy than others -- true -- but the political expediency of retaining political power/seat and gaining unfair competitive advantage for businesses) adjunct title reads: Most Americans Back Not Pay For Procedures They Know They'll Never Use.

The congressman also noted another cause of high health insurance premiums. I think it was New Jersey he was describing. He equated it to where some states have a policy of obtaining immediate homeowners fire insurance when a fire breaks out regardless of the homeowner not having fire insurance prior to the fire. New Jersey legislatures were trying to pass a bill that would do the same for health insurance. Break a leg, get insurance on your way into the hospital.

Insurance premiums would sky rocket. Plus, many NJ residents -- at least those that still bothered to buy insurance -- that live neighboring Pennsylvania would get a mailing address there to buy less-costly insurance in PA. Thus further increasing the NJ insurance premiums.

265 posted on 07/20/2006 3:14:50 PM PDT by Zon (Honesty outlives the lie, spin and deception -- It always has -- It always will.)
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To: gogeo
Yes, the salary is paid by the employer. Let me make this easy for you.

Employee A is hired at $25,000 per year plus insurance to do a job.

Employee B comes along and is offered the same package, $25,000 plus insurance. He/She decides that because their spouse has better insurance they don't need it. The employer doesn't give him/her any additional money for not taking the benefit.

Who paid? The employee. They're doing the exact job as Employee A but being compensated less for it. Notice I didn't say salary was less, but total cost to employer (salary + insurance).

266 posted on 07/20/2006 3:21:21 PM PDT by 2nd amendment mama ( www.2asisters.org • Self defense is a basic human right!)
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To: AmericanInTokyo

Hmmm, well I consider myself more conservative than libertarian, but I can see why you'd say that.

Overweight? Nah, the body of a god. Well, *maybe* not a god, but at least I'm not overweight (and I have all my hair).


267 posted on 07/20/2006 3:28:11 PM PDT by ChildOfThe60s (If you can remember the 60s...you weren't really there.)
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To: ChildOfThe60s

Ok. Sounds cool.


268 posted on 07/20/2006 4:25:56 PM PDT by AmericanInTokyo (A few clever bones tossed on gay unions, flag burning & Iraq still don't absolve GWB over BORDERS)
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To: bfree
Since you ask, it is actually US $80,000. Now it has been upped to $82,000. The taxation on housing, however, the excludable taxation portion, has been heavily diminished. By the way, you know of the Japanese double taxation system don't you? American would pay for US federal taxes, US state taxes, Japanese income taxes, and Japanese ward or local taxes. A shadow of the true salary is left.

Get your facts straight, got it? (And for starters, educate yourself by reading my profile. You will see where I am not. That will start you on the road to truth). "Hypocrite?", my that was a good one. Thanks.

269 posted on 07/20/2006 4:29:34 PM PDT by AmericanInTokyo (A few clever bones tossed on gay unions, flag burning & Iraq still don't absolve GWB over BORDERS)
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To: JohnD9207
Agreed, however here's a better question. What do you think are the chances that Mr Brightside will get a reduction on his health insurance vs Mr Brightside paying the same amount of money, and the unhealthy folks paying more and the insurance companies pocketing all of the money?

Reminds me of something I heard once that illustates the logical outcome of socialism. When asked about the difference between liviing in Russia and living in the US, a Russian expatriot explained:

"In the US, if a farmer's neighbor gets an new tractor, and the farmer is jealous he'll start figuring out how he can get a new tractor, too. In Russia, he'll start trying to figure out how to get his neighbor in trouble with the KGB so they'll take it away from him."

270 posted on 07/20/2006 5:02:21 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: Gabz

Thanks for the ping. Saving for later.


271 posted on 07/20/2006 5:06:01 PM PDT by Just A Nobody (NEVER AGAIN..Support our Troops! www.irey.com and www.vets4Irey.com - Now more than Ever!)
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To: AmericanInTokyo
I don't care where you are or your meaningless drivel.

Quick question, what about the "+" sign didn't you understand? US taxpayers are still subsidizing citizens who work abroad by their choice, right? Good bye, don't waste your time answering.
272 posted on 07/20/2006 5:18:03 PM PDT by bfree (Liberalism-the yellow meat,)
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To: Zon
Most Americans Back Not Pay For Procedures They Know They'll Never Use.

I agree. I'm sure there are some who would like to use the system to penalize people they disapprove of, but most, if they realized how counterproductive government involvement is, would agree to a system where coverage and cost were negotiated between a willing buyer and seller.

273 posted on 07/20/2006 5:27:29 PM PDT by Tax-chick (Whiskey for my men, hyperbolic rodomontade for my horses.)
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To: bfree
I am surprised that there has been no outrage about the article I linked to you.

I'm not, there appear to be far too many folks here of late that agree with that kind of nonsense.

274 posted on 07/20/2006 6:09:44 PM PDT by Gabz (Taxaholism, the disease you elect to have (TY xcamel))
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To: rdax

sky divers already pay extra. Insurance policies routinely exclude sky diving.

This is about "sin taxes" again.

The democrats want to tax happiness.

How about we pass a law that say all people must find happiness in the exact same place.


275 posted on 07/20/2006 6:12:16 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: rdax
"What about risky lifestyles of sky-divers, mountain climbers, gay men?"

Yup. I don't mind paying higher premiums for my habits, as long as other people with dangerous habits have to do the same. But I'll be damned if I'll do it when there are politically correct exclusions to the rules.
276 posted on 07/20/2006 6:18:04 PM PDT by DesScorp
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Comment #277 Removed by Moderator

To: tacticalogic

In the US, if a farmer's neighbor gets an new tractor, and the farmer is jealous he'll start figuring out how he can get a new tractor, too. In Russia, he'll start trying to figure out how to get his neighbor in trouble with the KGB so they'll take it away from him."

Good one.

I don't recall whom Milton Friedman was quoting when he replied: "elections are a kind of futures market in stolen property."

Prostituting power in collusion with special interest groups representing most industries and buying votes -- with stolen tax dollars -- has been SOP for a long time.

278 posted on 07/20/2006 7:03:45 PM PDT by Zon (Honesty outlives the lie, spin and deception -- It always has -- It always will.)
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To: bfree

:-)


279 posted on 07/20/2006 7:37:46 PM PDT by AmericanInTokyo (A few clever bones tossed on gay unions, flag burning & Iraq still don't absolve GWB over BORDERS)
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To: 2nd amendment mama
Let me make this easy for you.

Snort.

I have an accounting and business background. Read your post again. I understand the point you are trying to make, but it's not the point you expressed.

280 posted on 07/20/2006 8:44:59 PM PDT by gogeo (The /sarc tag is a form of training wheels for those unable to discern intellectual subtlety.)
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