Posted on 07/13/2006 9:04:26 AM PDT by Hal1950
But no fragmentation damage from the missile warhead?
Curious.
Well, I guess I let a little sarcasm slip in there. Sorry.
But there really has been a lot of research on this and a lot of it has been put up right here on FR. There is a plethora of eye witness testimony, and a lot of it is very VERY credible, and not only from folks on the beach, but from pilots in the area. There is at least one National Guard pilot who SAW the missile impact.
There is the whole issue of the forensic evidence of shrapnel fragments removed from bodies that has not only disappeared, but all the records of the forensic examination of the metal fragments has disappeared. This evidence could really lay to rest the issue of a missile because the evidence would indicate explosive velocity and residues.
If there was no missle, this is the evidence that would prove it. So, where is it? Freedom of Information requests seem to be stonewalled.
Link:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1664122/posts
Is the case for a missle shootdown "open and shut". No. I agree with you on that. But the governments official fuel tank explosion is no slam dunk either.
In fact, the preponderance of the evidence actually available to the public tends very strongly to support the mssile scenario.
Then there is all the evidence uncovered by Jack Cashill and others, like Bill and Bob Donaldson. It keeps piling up.
Use the search engine. It will lead you to a fascinating story.
Who says so? Why can't the shrapnel be examined? Why can't we even see the reports of the examination of the shrapnel that was done at the time?
One has to wonder.
Thanks, and thanks for the apology.
I will check out the link. Like I say, I don't pretend to have any certainty on either side of this. I'm open to all new information and will gladly read the source you provided.
Interesting read. I'm not sure it adds much though either way. The FBI needs to release its findings and put this to rest. I don't think the fact that they haven't indicates anything more than the usual bureacratic obsession with turf and secrecy. Like with the JFK assassination, keeping investigative findings under wraps just leads to conspiracy notions most often that prove baseless. For that reason, the FBI just needs to release what it has one way or another and if they too conclude nothing amiss then all the more reason to get the information out.
One question enters my mind as I read this though. Louis Freeh was no friend of the Clinton administration and freely critiqued Clinton's security stewardship during the 90s in his book last year. I wonder what he says about TWA 800 in his book. We know he didn't claim any cover up here or I think that would have made headlines. Why would he have not done so if there was one, especially if it was done as the piece above claims to protect Clinton in the 1996 elections? I think Freeh would gladly have let the cat out of the bag on that one.
Anyway, just a thought I had as I read this. The mystery continues I suppose. I still lean to the fuel tank theory, though I'm open to any contrary information that arises.
Because it doesn't exist?
Just a guess.
Shrapnel DID exist. Hundreds of peices were removed from the victims bodies and inventoried. The metalurgical analysis of some of the fragments was suspicious because the source of some of the metal fragments was not consistent with the materials used on a 747, and additionally was heat and velocity formed at temperatures and velocities inconsistent with a fuel tank explosion.
I have been accused of insensitivity by sugggesting that folks do a bit of research before making statements, but I still think it's a good idea. It helps folks build credibility.
Some research:
Item “1B-28” - 20 mysterious shrapnel pellets of “unknown origin”
Apart from the single page mentioned above, only one other forensic laboratory report out of those missing hundreds has ever been released by the FBI. It was an analysis performed by Brookhaven National Lab (BNL) to evaluate 20 small (~1/4” diameter) pellets that were removed during autopsy of the person whose ME# was 96-5037; the pellets were designated Item “1B-28”. The lab report showed that a sample pellet was composed mostly of Aluminum with traces of Titanium, Zirconium, Cerium and Barium. Such compounds are consistent with incendiary pellets used in some missiles. The report merely concluded "unknown origin." The details of 1B-28 were among over 200 fairly innocuous pages of documents released in response to a Freedom of Information Act request from another independent researcher, Don Collins, in California. The FBI’s executive summary of that BNL Lab report was at variance with the remarkable implications of the BNL’s findings. The FBI initially classified the BNL report "secret."
Even if the remarkable incendiary components could be explained, the official low-velocity type fuel explosion could not shatter aluminum into small pellets.
Refer to the details and some of the documents of this BNL evidence at:
http://www.flight800.org/FBI_COMP.htm
http://www.twa800.com
My thoughts on all of this is real simple. If the evidence supported the government's version of events, it would have been released at the time.
There would have been no need whatsover to classify it or bury it. I agree that probably now the inability of the FBI to put its hands on the data might be attributable to bureacracy. But that begs the question of how the critical data got separated from the rest of the data in the first place.
The courts.
Shrapnel Evidence From Victims Holds Key by Graeme Sephton (excerpt) "By winning its legal battle to continue withholding the most fundamental evidence, the FBI has won a pyrrhic victory, which further undermines the credibility of the investigation and the public's trust.
But there is a more far-reaching issue in this case, too. In our modern world full of complex man-made perils, we depend mightily on government scientific integrity and efficiency to inform us about such dangers and to keep us safe. And it is critical to be able to assert FOIA rights to allow the possibility of auditing government performance.
Initially, my concern was about the apparently ineffective investigation of this specific tragedy. Eventually, I became just as concerned about the vital importance of our Freedom of Information rights as one of the most effective tools we have for asserting accountability and auditing government performance in such circumstances. Those rights have been eroded over the last few years. and if the courts and the media allow this trend to continue it will be increasingly hard for anyone to find anything useful about government blunders or ever hold agencies accountable in general.
If the courts allow government agencies to perform ineffective searches and tolerate agency refusals to give reasonable assurances that good-faith searches occurred, then our Freedom of Information rights are being undermined. Given all the above, I feel compelled to now petition the Supreme Court. With the current conservative composition of the Court, my petition is not likely to sway that august body unless other concerned parties such as our "watchdog" media take up the issue as well. We will only ever have government integrity and transparency if we stand up and demand it.
The litigation is quite expensive and everyone concerned enough to contribute a donation can reportedly contact Sephton through WorldNetDaily.com
Don't confuse the issue by putting both in the same theory.
They found the vertical tail in the water behind where the aircraft had flown.
An aircraft cannot be flown with no yaw control. They roll over into a spin and parts start coming off.
The verticle tail is of composit on that aircraft, and it cannot take the stress that was put on it by the pilot.
It broke off.
bbttt rd ltr
I have to wonder what we would have been told happened if the Shoe Bomber had been successful.
His attempt is still not listed often among TERRORIST ATTACKS since 9-11. Just becuase he was unsuccessful does not mean the attack didn't happen. He was stopped IN THE ACT.
Aw, not YOUR sxhit again!
Great. Now all we have to do is find a suitable candidate to provide the type of fragmentation you describe.
Tungsten fragmentation?
Ok.
Titanium fragmentation?
Ok.
Aluminum alloy fragmentation?
Back to you.
The greatest hero of the WOT was the stewardess who stopped him. Why isn't she a household name? Where's the movie?
Really, I'm asking. I don't know.
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