ex-GI accused of Iraq rape, murder from same platoon as 2 GI's who were kidnapped, mutilated

AOL News ^ | 07/02/05 | TIM WHITMIRE

[Riverman94610]

In general,I don't think our military commits atrocities like this one,but there ARE some loose screws that step way over the line and put the rest of our guys in danger,not to mention fueling the Islamic hate inciters even more.
Those conservatives that try to rationalize or deny that a few of our own DO commit horrid crimes are as bad as the liberal apologists for Communist atrocities who do all sorts of contortionist tricks to excuse their idols from the consequences of their acts.

[dakine]

But a few posts earlier, you blamed "drive-by media" for what has transpired....the .pdf posted was what was presented in court, I don't think the media has anything to do with that filing...

[abb]

http://www.armytimes.com/content/editorial/pdf/at.green_rape_complaint070306.pdf

[billbears]

Now there is an affadavit. The soldier was arrested in Asheville I believe and arraigned just down the road in Charlotte. Thoughts? They don't arrest people based on MSM conspiracies.

Two other soldiers from the division's 502nd Infantry Regiment who were present and interviewed by investigators said Green fired shots from an AK-47 submachine gun that killed the woman, as well as three members of her family: a man, woman and a young girl.

It is a statistical fact that some (more than one) of these sorts are going to be in a population of 150,000+

[SE Mom]

Thanks..

[pissant]

It is also a statistical fact that a private getting four fellow soldiers to go along with it is about one in 10 million.

[abb]

Oh, I never disputed that Green was arrested. And if he was arrested, there obviously had to have been a complaint sworn to. But it's still only an accusation. The Drive-By Media has convinced a lot of you folks the case is over and all we need is a tree and a rope. I say lets see the evidence...

[Syncro]

The generalization "our military just does not do stuff like this" is true.

If indeed the person accused is found guilty, then one guy did this. He was in the Military.

"Our Military" does not do things like this.

As in any group of a few hundred thousand people, there will always be a few individuals that do horrible things.

Blaming this on "our Military" is a pretty broad brush.

Let's see what happens in the trial, holding back on statements like "our soldiers slaughtered" Iraqis.

From a post to you that you did not respond to:

...this happens less in the military than it does in civilian life. Military induction and training tends to weed out the criminals and psychos and military leadership does not tolerate the presence of these types of people in their commands. When this happens, and if it happened, it is an anomaly and it is dealt with harshly in accordance with the UCMJ!

Your rush to judgment on almost every accusation against our Military and our Country, the United States of America is a sad commentary on your life.

[billbears]

Not at all. I can think of plenty of ways he sold the idea to a small contingent of fellow soldiers. And I'd also bet he either didn't tell them he was planning on killing anyone or that it happened in a spur of the moment.

Of course for your idea to be correct, we now have to assume three soldiers are lying to get one private who is already out of the service in trouble. Any idea why they would want to do that? Hmmmmm.....

[Triggerhippie]

I'd hate to be in that SOB's shoes...


Fortunately for me, I'd never do anything to warrant the sh!tstorm that's coming his way.

[D-fendr]

They don't arrest people based on MSM conspiracies.

In the main no. However lots of folks slander people based on MSM stories - often manipulated by media-savy terrorists.

My point was to not believe 'unnamed sources' and to wait for real evidence.

Your's was: A certain percentage of people are bad actors so…?

[abb]

Fortunately for me, I'd never do anything to warrant the sh!tstorm that's coming his way

Unless of course, some wacko district attorney somewhere ran amok and accused you of a crime you didn't commit...

[pissant]

I'm telling you something is fishy. You can think so or not. Here are my first 10, of many questions.

1st: Why would just some of them change out of uniform and not others, if they were trying to be sneaky. that makes no sense.

2nd: What are the chances of 5 US soldiers planning on committing rape and murder. One, maybe two, but 5? And why would they talk about it openly for others to supposedly hear?

3rd: Just how would they burn their clothes? Would they do it incamp for everyone else to see, including their commanding officers? Why would they show up in bloody civies. No criminal wants to be caught and that sounds about as reckless as possible.

4th: Why does it make sense that someone would stay behind on the radio and cover for them? This Green guy was not an officer, so asking someone to do that or for someone to watch the door is way beyond the abilities of a private.

5th: If he was plotting the rape as is alledged and it was overheard by two other guys not involved, why would they not confront him or report him? Most normal human being would not sit idly by if they heard of such a plot. Certainly not a soldier.

6th: If it happened at 5:30 pm as alleged, then it happened in broad daylight. Kinda of stupid, I would think.

7th: If shots could be heard coming out of that house, there were no Iraqis or other soldiers that would have responded?

8th: Why did it take a June 20th debriefing to bring it to the attention of Military brass? Wouldn't the relatives and townsfolk who knew these people be screaming bloody murder at the top of their lungs, or did they also suspect it was sectarian violence.

9th: How safe was that town at the time for troops to be going off in a group of 4 with only one in uniform? Sounded like one of the hottest of hotbeads for insurgents.

10th: How many soldiers were left at the "nearby" checkpoint at rush hour who may have been suspicious of such activity?

Just lotsa questions.

[Snickersnee]

How many death warrants did Ike sign for this kind of thing just during the occupation of Paris? IIRC, it was several dozen.

[Triggerhippie]

Too true, but I suspect that's not the case here...

[abb]

Too true, but I suspect that's not the case here

The empirical data show that these "attrocity" storis are usually just so much bullshit. The odds are this one is to...

[motife]

more info from the New York Times :
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/04/us/04arrest.html
July 4, 2006
Ex-G.I. Accused of Murders and Rape in Iraq
By DAVID S. CLOUD and KIRK SEMPLE
WASHINGTON, July 3 — A recently discharged Army private has been arrested on charges of raping an Iraqi woman and killing her and three family members four months ago in their house in the Iraqi town of Mahmudiya, federal prosecutors said Monday.

The former soldier, Steven D. Green, 21, had recently been discharged from the Army for a "personality disorder," the prosecutors said. They said Mr. Green and other soldiers had discussed the rape in advance, and carried out the crimes after drinking alcohol, leaving a checkpoint and changing from their uniforms into black clothing.

A criminal complaint made public by the prosecutors on Monday charged that Mr. Green shot the three family members, including a child, with an AK-47 assault rifle found in the house before he and another soldier raped the woman. Citing interviews with unnamed participants, the document alleges that Mr. Green, his face covered with a brown T-shirt, then "walked over to the woman and shot her several times." It says the soldiers returned to the checkpoint with blood on their clothes and agreed that the episode was "never to be discussed again."

Mr. Green, who appeared in federal court on Monday in Charlotte, N.C., was arrested there on Friday, the prosecutors said. The documents they made public provided the first official account of the rape and killings, whose broad outlines emerged last week after American military officials in Baghdad said they were investigating the incident. The military originally thought Iraqi insurgents were responsible after several Iraqis approached an American checkpoint and said a family had been killed in their home, the charging documents said.

The rape victim was identified in the American court documents as a 25-year-old woman, but there have been conflicting accounts of her age. In Iraq, the mayor of Mahmudiya said Monday that the rape victim had been only 15 years old.

The mayor, Mouayid Fadhil, said that those killed included the rape victim's parents and her 7-year-old sister, and that the attackers also tried to set the rape victim's body on fire, apparently in an effort to cover up evidence. American officials said they could not confirm that the house had been set on fire by soldiers. But the complaint refers to crime scene photographs, including one showing a "burned body."

The case is one of five recent incidents in which American military personnel have come under investigation for killing unarmed Iraqis, and it is the first in which an alleged participant has been charged in civilian courts, which prosecutors said was necessitated by Mr. Green's discharge.

A White House spokeswoman, Dana Perino, said: "We understand that charges have been brought against the individual. The president has full confidence in the military to investigate alleged crimes and to punish anyone convicted of abhorrent behavior that dishonors the proud traditions of our military. He will not comment on ongoing investigations so as not to prejudice the outcome; however, he believes that 99.9 percent of our men and women in uniform are performing their jobs honorably and skillfully and they deserve our full appreciation and gratitude."

The charges were brought against Mr. Green after public disclosure of the investigation last week led prosecutors to fear he might attempt to flee, said Marisa Ford, an assistant United States attorney in Louisville, Ky., where the charges were brought.

The prosecutors said Mr. Green was likely to be transferred next week to Louisville, which is four hours away from Fort Campbell, Ky., where his unit, the 101st Airborne Division, has its headquarters.

Cecilia Osequera, a public defender who represented Mr. Green at his court appearance Monday, declined to comment.

The case is in federal court because the crime was committed abroad. The Army is considering whether it could reactivate Mr. Green in order to allow the military to prosecute him, rather than leaving the case to civilian authorities, an Army official said. If convicted in either military or civilian court, Mr. Green could face the death penalty, prosecutors and Army officials said.

American military officials have said they first learned about the rape and killings last month, after Mr. Green left the Army. He had received an honorable discharge after only 11 months in the service because of what the charging documents described only as a "personality disorder." His departure was unrelated to the incident, the Army official said, adding that he had no more information about Mr. Green's disorder.

Army officials and prosecutors said that, before his arrest, Mr. Green may have been planning to attend a funeral service Saturday at Arlington National Cemetery for Specialist David J. Babineau, one of three soldiers who were ambushed at a checkpoint in Yusufiya in June. Two other soldiers who survived the ambush were taken prisoner by insurgents and later killed and mutilated.

Though Mr. Green and the three ambush victims reportedly came from the same unit, the 502nd Infantry Regiment of the 101st Airborne, so far, the Army official said there was no evidence that the Americans had been abducted in retaliation for the rape and murder of the Iraqis.

Other participants in the crimes are likely to be charged by military prosecutors and face court-martial, a prosecutor involved said.

At least three other soldiers suspected of involvement in the rape and murder of the Iraqis are being held in a military base in Iraq, but several soldiers interviewed by prosecutors, identified in charging documents only as "sources of information," said that Mr. Green was responsible for the killings and that he and an another unidentified soldier, referred to as a "known participant" committed the rape.

The incident came to light last month after soldiers in the regiment were undergoing "a combat stress debriefing" related to the ambush of three Americans, the charging documents said. After entering the house, the compliant alleged that Mr. Green herded family members into a back bedroom and closed the door. After shots were heard, he emerged, telling the other soldiers, "I just killed them. All are dead," according to one unidentified soldier.

Participants in the attacks later told another soldier who had remained behind at the checkpoint to "dispose of the AK-47 in a canal across the street," the document says.

The Iraqi mayor, Mr. Fadhil, said the body of the rape victim, Abeer Qasem Hamzeh, had multiple bullet wounds and burn marks. Abeer's sister, Hadeel, was shot in the head, the mayor said, reading from a hospital report, her father, Qasem Hamzeh Rasheed, who was in his mid-40's, suffered head trauma; and her mother, Fakhariya Taja Muhassain, was shot multiple times.

Three sons were at school at the time of the March 12 attack, the mayor added.

An American military official, who requested anonymity because he was not authorized to speak on the record, said investigators still had no firm ages for the family members and said the rape victim had been classified by Iraqis in Mahmudiya as an "adult." But in Iraq, girls who have reached child-bearing age are often referred to as adults.

American military officials announced their investigation into the attack last week and said they were pursuing allegations that soldiers from the 502nd Infantry Regiment were involved.

A committee of Iraqi officials opened its own investigation into the case on Saturday after conversations with the American military, Mr. Fadhil said. The committee includes Mr. Fadhil, a judge from Mahmudiya, the director of the town's hospital, the local police chief, a member of the Mahmudiya town council and a representative from the Iraqi Army, the mayor said.

An Army spokesman, Maj. Todd Breasseale, said the American authorities welcomed the development. "We would encourage any civilian judiciary or any civilian legislative arm to explore their own investigation," he said in a telephone interview. "That's what a free and open government system does. We wouldn't even think to hinder it."

David S. Cloud reported from Washington for this article, Kirk Semple from Baghdad. Mona Mahmoud contributed reporting from Baghdad.

[Dave Elias]

How is rape and murder an issue of chain of command issue? It's a basic issue of knowing right from wrong. Are you saying that unless supervised, troopers will default to savagery? A five year old knows this behaiviour is wrong.

[Sarajevo]

The Chain of Command is responsible for EVERYTHING that is done by it's troops. A Private is supervised by a Corporal. A corporal is supervised by a Sergeant, and so on. This guy was a PFC. He should have been under direct supervision of an NCO.

If this guy was a mental case, he shouldn't have been permitted to have a weapon, PERIOD.

If this guy was intoxicated, he shouldn't have been in possession of a weapon, PERIOD.

This is a Chain-of-Command case. Where were they? Why wasn't an NCO there to beat this guy over the head and reinforce the point that his actions are not condoned (if the accusations are true).

When I was an NCO, we constantly monitored our troops, on and off duty. We were responsible for everything our troops did, or did not do.

It's called Leadership. That's what the NCO Corp stands by, regardless of the branch of service.

[brazzaville]

Good evening.
"It is a statistical fact that some (more than one) of these sorts are going to be in a population of 150,000+"

billbears, you appear to believe that some among us don't believe this was possible. I haven't seen anyone say that. Do you honestly think any of us, on any side of the issue give a rat's behind about the statistical probability of atrocities being committed or the fact that this could happen? We know it can and that it does. No one has denied that this is possible, or even that the troopers might be guilty.

It's a strange story, for sure. There are so many things these four are supposed to have done that are so completely illogical that they strain credibility. I also want to know whether the guy is in the custody of the military or civilian law enforcement and when the guy who supposedly helped him rape the poor girl is going to be placed in custody.

"MSM conspiracies" is your phrase but it looks to be a good one, what with Rathergate, and the two Times revealing classified info the way they did.

Now let's find out about Haditha as we did about the Marine on film shooting the wounded Iraqi and LT Pantano. All three of these of those are media driven incidents. The Marines were both cleared and Haditha looks like it will be a wash too, but even if it turned out to be true, it would be an aberration, not the norm and we should wait until convictions are handed down before assuming guilt.

The appearance that some are presuming guilt and the anger of others over that is what is feeding this thread.

Most people say that we will find out the truth.

Michael Frazier