We're at War, You Say?

The American Enterprise Online ^ | May 17, 2006 | Joseph Knippenberg

[George W. Bush]

I long for those determined Republicans we had who gave us the Contract with America.

Me too. So I joined Club For Growth. Our candidates have done very well in primaries this year, more victories to come. We are also targetting Chafee (a.k.a. Chafee) for defeat in Rhode Island.

[toddlintown]

I can't go out and eat because we're in Iraq?

Little over the top for me.

[Jim Noble]

I kind of like the idea that we are capable of waging war without demanding significant sacrifice from the citizenry.

You like it. Politicians love it.

George W. Bush and Donald Rumsfeld not only love it, but regard it as essential to their tenures in office.

But it's not true.

War is not a finely-calibrated tool of civil government, like setting short-term interest rates to alter M2.

War is an atavistic, primitive reflex which nevertheless obeys certain rules, or laws. If anyone studied military history anymore, we could have a few people in government with a clue.

But we don't, so we bumble from Korea to Vietnam to Iraq, electrifying rural villages, building health centers, winning hearts and minds, and getting our asses kicked.

Most people, including most FReepers, recoil from "nuke 'em 'till they glow, then shoot 'em in the dark".

But we are playing a very primitive game, with some of the most primitive people on the planet.

William T. Sherman, an otherwise civilized man, carried out a campaign of unprecedented barbarity (for his time and place), but observed "War is cruelty. There is no use trying to reform it. The crueler it is, the sooner it will be over".

When the leaders of Atlanta pleaded to be spared, he replied, " You might as well appeal against the thunder-storm as against these terrible hardships of war. They are inevitable, and the only way the people of Atlanta can hope once more to live in peace and quiet at home, is to stop the war, which can only be done by admitting that it began in error and is perpetuated in pride. We don't want your Negroes, or your horses, or your lands, or any thing you have, but we do want and will have a just obedience to the laws of the United States. That we will have, and if it involved the destruction of your improvements, we cannot help it."

Think on that. "If it involves the destruction of your improvements, WE CANNOT HELP IT".

That's what war is. War is savagery. War is destruction. War is able to be controlled only a little bit, and with great care lest its aims not be diverted.

There is no evidence - none - for your postmodern fantasy that war can be carried out (to victory, anyway) without sacrifice from the people in whose name it is waged.

[cricket]

I think we have a nation of way to many 'bahwahers' - so to speak - who like all current and commited victims of Liberalism. . .are being over-influenced by the howling, miserable '24/7' voice of the collective MSM. . .

President Bush does remind 'America' of a need for all to remember and sacrifice while offering appreciation to those in our Military etc. . .but his is more a voice in the wilderness post prime time. . .

The Left wants - and needs - America to be it's own worst enemy. . .

[Allegra]

Well, I'm not really a vet (thank you for your service); I'm a civilian who's been hanging around a war zone for a while.

Personally, I'm glad the war kind of disappears when I'm home or away from here. When you take a break from a combat zone, you want a break from it. Not to dishonor our troops in any way, but I enjoy the time I can briefly forget about the war.

So more power to all the people back home living life as it should be lived! After all, that is what our noble armed forces are fighting for - to preserve our way of life.

If everyone were all miserable back home due to the war, I wouldn't want to go home on leave. I'd have to find someplace fun to go. As it is, going home is fun, relaxing and invigorating.

[angcat]

The media has made this Bush's War. I work with a bunch of assholes that I have to "ignore" every day regarding this subject. They (mental Midget bimbo) walks around calling the President "an asshole". One believes there was no reason to attack Iraq. Another made a comment just yesterday "I can't wait until Bush is out of office". I ignored him. You see these people are hicks and as long as they have their bars and dart league they are happy. They learn politics from Michael Moore. It is truly pathetic bunch.

[George W. Bush]

Was there a sense of war in the U.S. then? Were things very different from how they are now?

Not greatly different. LBJ did maybe a bit more PR, like him escorting soldiers to their aircraft to fly to Vietnam. There's a famous picture of him shaking their hands as they boarded. You'd see more attention to military funerals which is almost invisible today. Things like that. The media coverage from the networks was pretty relentless, mostly focused around "can we win" and "at what cost", not so much a "this war is morally wrong" like today's media, at least not until the last few years of the war.

But it was a much larger war with far more men in actual sustained combat so it would draw more press flies. There were only the three big networks and you did see coverage but no specials really except for something like Tet. Probably the public's attention was more focuse on it because every family's sons were subject to the draft so it created a more immediate interest.

Just my impression. I was only a kid, born in the late Fifties. Our best antenna reception was ABC (Jennings during his first failed network anchor job) so I was never exposed to Cronkite on CBS.

With the massive protests of the Left and student riots it changed things. So did the hearings of the Church Commission and the release of the classified Pentagon Papers. These all stirred interest in the war but were only peripheral issues. Still, they added to the entire impression one had day-to-day of a war.

We only saw the kind of sentiment of a country at war for about a year after 9/11. It's declined ever since. Failure to find a large stockpile of WMD played a part, I think.

[antivenom]

got a better idea. Quit trying to use the Military as a laboratory for Social Engineering. That not their job. Their job is to kill people and wreck stuff, not impose fanatics Political visions of how society should run

AGREE 100%!

[Flyer]

Was there a sense of war in the U.S. then?

I think we would have to go back to WWII to find a nation with a "sense of war"

The war we are in now isn't demanding a large share of our resources and capabilities. When one had to buy gasoline with coupons, it was a lot easier to have a sense of war. And Victory Gardens and collecting scrap steel. . . all things we haven't had to do.

[Hot Tabasco]

Was there a sense of war in the U.S. then?

It was non-stop front page news that you watched or read with complete detachment unless you had a personal involvement with it. Like if you had a close friend or family member in Vietnam.......

It was just going on but since it was "over there" you just read over it and moved on to the sports section..........I see the same thing happening today.

This website is the only chance I get to talk about and read about the war. Nobody at work even mentions the current war, none of my friends mention the war, when my family gets together nobody mentions the war. It doesn't exist!

...and it makes me furious and sick!

When I was in the Army it was like time had stopped. This may sound strange but when the movie Apollo 13 came out, that was the first time I had ever heard about that event........

[Allegra]

This may sound strange but when the movie Apollo 13 came out, that was the first time I had ever heard about that event........

WOW! (I love that movie; I own it.) Were you in Vietnam when Apollo 13 happened? I remember it, but I was a kid at home and everyone was glued to the TV sets.

Thank you for your service.

[George W. Bush]

And the Republicans in most danger are apparently the most conservative.

I disagree vehemently. The only exception so far is Chris Cannon who got a surprise upset and recruited a challenger for his primary. It's his own fault for being soft on in-state tuition for illegals. Sad that it happened to someone with a 10-year career ACU rating of 97% but people are very hot on the illegals thing all over the country. The other upset was the defeat of Coach Osborne in Nebraska as governor. He also went soft on in-state tuition and was defeated. And he was the most popular person in the state, universally loved and respected.

However, if Cannon is defeated, his successor will be just as conservative, only a little more so on illegals. And Heineman (who beat Osborne) is no more liberal and perhaps a little more conservative than Osborne was.

The heat generated over an issue the pols consider to be as peripheral as in-state tuition in two races with popular Republicans in the safest all-Red states in the country is an indicator of just how hot the electorate (not just Republicans) are on this issue.

[Allegra]

Nobody at work even mentions the current war, none of my friends mention the war, when my family gets together nobody mentions the war. It doesn't exist!

Here's what's really weird. When I'm home, nobody mentions the war to me at all. It's like they don't want to acknowldege it. If I make a reference to it (Hell, it's my life right now), it's brushed off.

I had one dear friend who was the opposite and wanted to hear all of my "war stories" when I was home. I think he understood that it was somewhat therapeutic for us to talk about it, but he was also obviously genuinely interested.

Unfortunately, he passed away last year. He was about the only person who discussed it with me. It's as if it's a taboo subject back home.

[ClaireSolt]

re "I long for those determined Republicans we had who gave us the Contract with America." has it not occurred to you that they also gave us 9/11? Did they really have the right priorities?

[Allegra]

The war we are in now isn't demanding a large share of our resources and capabilities. When one had to buy gasoline with coupons, it was a lot easier to have a sense of war. And Victory Gardens and collecting scrap steel. . . all things we haven't had to do.

So people just forget?

[George W. Bush]

I think we would have to go back to WWII to find a nation with a "sense of war"

Even during the Civil War, you read accounts of people living the high life, oblivious to the war in our own country. And young men of means would hire people via a contract system to fulfill their military obligation to their state's militia.

So even the Civil War didn't exactly rivet everyone's attention, despite the telegraph and railroad system. Even then, vast numbers of Americans were oblivious to the war. And that was a very bloody one, worst in our history really.

[MNJohnnie]

The President of the USA has no authority to have people who disagree with him arrest just to make the Perpetual Screamers happy. The world does NOT work as the Constantly Pissed TV shows says it does

[Allegra]

Thank you for your perspective. I do remember the sense of war that was prevalent after 9/11. That was probably largely due to the fact that the initiation of war began on our own soil.

I also remember a sense of war during Desert Storm, but that was so short that it didn't need to be sustained, so it fit with today's "instant gratification" trend in society.

[Hot Tabasco]

Were you in Vietnam when Apollo 13 happened?

No, I was in Panama for about 2 1/2 years. When I look back on it, I remember that that was a period of no television or radio. I think we may have had a tv in the day room but it was never used because the channels were all spanish as were the radio stations...... LOL!

[MNJohnnie]

I am sorry for the way this country treated those of you who fought in Vietnam. I know you had a tough time of it. This war is not Vietnam. Vietnam did not start with 3000 Americans being murdered by the enemy. Please stop making fraudulent analogies to Vietnam out of this war. It in no way, shape, form or operational method is it in any way similar to Vietnam. That is a nonsensical claim.