Posted on 05/17/2006 7:47:58 AM PDT by Pukin Dog
Edited on 05/17/2006 8:30:59 AM PDT by Lead Moderator. [history]
Thanks, Mo!
Off to watch a movie.
Have fun, BSF. BBL
The line forms behind me. lol
And to think, Monday was his Freeperversity.
You're wrong, rikkir. Someone DID read your post. LOL! EXCELLENT! I'm glad you're here even if you are late. Keep telling them.
The whole factory farm system just grosses me out. It's not like we are cattle farmers, we are the people who eat the stuff that is factory farmed and our health is failing because of it.
- - -
Then there's the issue of wondering what the REAL truth is about mad cow's spread. Those ugly prions are a real hazard . . . showing up in squirrels, deer . . .
Gosh - you do see the real enemy. I hope you are wrong about Bush.
But, your views are interesting and I too have come to realize that something more is going on rather than just dem/gop competition.
There is too much "black" is "white". Too many lame reasons for non-action - the environment, global warming, ANWR restrictions, protection of the criminal elements, refusal to push through stronger child protection laws.
I heard it explained the other day as the Muslim lobby in active manipulation of our system - but, it may be something else. Whatever the else is - it has migrated into our government and agencies and I too fear we are fighting to save this country.
Which is why I get highly upset with the one issue (at a time) tantrum throwers. We can only fight so many enemies and it is not fair to undercut our efforts to beat the real enemies. We need help not tantrums and quitters.
I'm going to bookmark this thread for exactly that purpose. There's a lot of folks I haven't had the pleasure of "netting" with; maybe this'll be my way of introduction when going after another "lie" being espoused by people who belong elsewhere but are here with other purposes in mind.
Casey is pro-life and 2A just like Gephardt & Bonior were. He's a Rendell stooge.
"You are so wrong on so many fronts."
Undoubtedly.
But I'm right on this particular front.
"You like to find an issue and push your weight around."
What weight?
Who am I?
"You like to threaten or you will leave,"
Not really.
I have a certain set of beliefs. Most of the time, they don't come into play. When they do, I state them. It's not a "threat", but informational, an advance warning, so to speak. If someone insists on pushing me on something on which I am resolved, I push back. If someone wants a full blown test of wills with me, I fight.
When I care about something, I fight.
"you want to throw away all our work so that you get to put your finger in the eye of the government."
You are throwing away all of your work so that you don't have to back down and give the BorderBots something they desperately want. Why is your not backing down on something unimportant so important that you are willing to blow up everything you've done? Just give them their fence and you don't have anything to worry about it.
Is that so hard?
WHY is it so hard?
Do you want an open border?
"Well - it is apparent that you will not help us -"
I have done you an immeasurable service today. I have patiently and repeatedly, and very carefully and articulately, and without abuse or excesses of purple passion, explained PRECISELY what the threat is to everything you want, PRECISELY where it's coming from, and PRECISELY what you need to do to fix the problem, so that the threat goes away.
But you're angry because I am telling you that you have encountered people who you NEED to achieve your goals, but who are not going to back down and take one for the team.
Are they selfish? Maybe.
They don't think so.
They think they are patriots trying to hold the line against a foreign invasion from without, and merchants from within who will sell their country, culture and future for a mess of cheap pottage.
So, you're not going to convince them.
And you're not going to intimidate them.
And they aren't going to back down.
And they are not going to save all your good work unless you give in and give them what THEY want.
It's as simple and as hard as that.
Why do you oppose saying the words: "We will build a border wall, an effective fence, like Israel has built, from sea to sea." There. That's it. That's all you have to do to prevent everything else from collapsing.
Why are you so stubborn about this?
And why do you think the BorderBots are going to back down on something PRECIOUS to them if YOU won't back down on a THROWAWAY issue to you.
Do you CARE if there's a fence on the Mexican Border?
No?
Then why don't you concede the point, and say that, yeah, to put the Party back together again and save everything, the President has to yield?
All I have done is frame the issue clearly and in precise language. That's doing you a service and the BorderBots a service too. If you listen to me, if the Republicans listen to me, you will save yourselves. If you are just absolutely adamant that I AM THE ENEMY for giving you a bad weather report, then you are going to repeat the error of Bush 41, do the equivalent of hiking taxes, and watch your work fall apart as you lose your allies.
Just stop it.
Agree to the wall.
"so, I consider you one of the enemy."
That's too bad.
You sound like Bilbo guarding his magic ring.
I will answer: "Bilbo Baggins! I am not trying to rob you! I am trying to HELP you." - Gandalf.
"Anybody that is willing to throw away all of my efforts to get a good man in the government for their current issue of the day"
The issues old. I am not "willing" to throw anything away. I want to keep the majority. That is why I want people like you to cut the test-of-wills power-struggle language and simply agree that we have to give the BorderBots their goddamned fence. That way we can keep Congress and not have bad things happen.
Obviously taxes and abortion are not "issues du jour". They are abiding, permanent issues that are anchor points of the GOP. Abandon those points, and you have abandoned your base.
Border control is an old issue, but it has been brought to a head as the issue has gotten more and more out of hand. The BorderBots are a large and angry core constituency. The ANSWER to them is not to fight them or get into an abstract pissing contest. GIVE THEM SOMETHING, something BIG, something they WANT, and you keep them.
Give them their wall, and you keep Congress.
"Why, because after this issue - it will be the next issue and the next and each time you will throw your tantrum and walk out leaving us to do the real work."
Is that so?
What "tantrums" have had that effect in the Republican Party, hmmmmm?
Two thus far:
(i) Bush 41's tax hike. The tax hawks left because Bush lied to them. It was as simple as that. The Republicans regrouped, made the Contract With America, and never proposed tax hikes ever again. And the tax hawks have never threatened to walk again, have they? You have their votes in permanence...until you decide to try and raise taxes. Then they go ballistic and walk out on you.
(ii) Pro-life, Specter, Schiavo and Miers. All of these things were linked. Pro-lifers were livid about Specter, and apoplectic about Schiavo. But when Miers was proposed for a permanent Supreme Court seat, pro-lifers became incandescent and started a slash-and-burn "it's her or it's us" campaign. The President yielded, and the pro-lifers are back.
Neither they nor the tax-hawks are talking about leaving you now. Now it's the Border Conservatives. That's their issue, and there are a lot of them. What is so terrible about giving them a Fence? That is all you have to do.
"Soon, the GOP understands you cannot be depended on and they write you off. They just really do not care if you leave or not - because if not this issue, it will be the next. You are a 'dramatic quitter'. Who needs you?"
You do.
Some have said that the crime and corruption in Mexico have led to a near chaotic situation. Perhaps a complete collapse of their society would finally convince our government to really secure our borders and recognize Mexico for what it is: a threat to US security.
"Which takes up back full circle to the (fill in the blank) outraged voters."
Who are groupable into three identifiable sets of people in the Republican base:
(1) Tax-hawks.
(2) Pro-lifers.
(3) BorderBots.
All three have to be given their core issues, because the GOP can't win without any of them. Politics is the art of the possible, not the art of childrearing. We don't get to "teach our base" a lesson. We do what they want us to do, if they are numerous and strong enough. And if we refuse to, we lose.
Same here, but I include my mom, her 2 brothers and sister (all Viet Nam vets) and my 2 grandfathers. They would be very displeased to know I supported anon-conservative republican.
WOO-HOO!
I'm thrilled for you!
C U L8r
It just makes no sense to me getting banned from a conservative website for being conservative.
Toodle-oo!
Voting against conservatives to teach them a lesson would be going to Ruth’s Chris restaurant and only eating the parsley to teach them a lesson.
Bush 41 was right broccoli is bad stuff too.
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