Posted on 05/17/2006 7:47:58 AM PDT by Pukin Dog
Edited on 05/17/2006 8:30:59 AM PDT by Lead Moderator. [history]
That thread proved it could be done, and I hope there are more threads like it in the future (but not started by ME. LOL.....that was hard work!! :)
I just said I did. In fact, one of the three all-Red states in 2000 and 2004. We're waiting for the rest of you to catch up.
Uh, I think you need to ban yourself for abusing your posting guidelines.
I am talking about the fact that upward of 80% of new Latino citizens vote for Democrats.
Just out of curiosity, would there be that much of a difference? From what I can see from outside the state, it seems much of CA's problem with illegals is the protection, rights and benefits that the current local and state government is providing them.
No bill is better than this bill. No amnesty. Keep the status quo.
No .. though I will admit there are a number in the Senate that are a real PITA
There are huge numbers of the stupid voting. Kerry got almost 50% of the vote last election.
The difference would be corruption. California is still an amazingly corruption free state. Liberals wackos may be wacko (and California has a boat load of them), but they tend not to be into corruption.
Actually, there was promised enforcement and border security that never happened. Which IMO is another good reason to de-couple the two - make the government improve security and THEN we'll talk guest worker. If the Bush Admin gets what they want with a guest worker program, will they follow up on enforcement? Or just let the issue stagnate like the Reagan Admin did?
I'm a pubbie to the bone, but I still realize that goverment will be government, no matter who is in charge, and it's best to make them eat their peas before you let them have their pudding.
That's why "stupid" GOP officeholders in border states are so damn squishy. The fools fear the vote they don't have. Some understand it, some don't, and those who don't are the ones I am calling fools.
"So, apparently you are not working to help for a GOP victory."
Oh yes I am!
I am doing you the greatest service that a knowledgeable junior officer can do for his senior commander: I am telling you the unvarnished truth to try and pull you back from making a catastrophic decision.
"Just how will the democrat congress help any of our conservative agenda items?"
It WON'T. We need to not have a Democratic Congress.
The way not to have a Democratic Congress is not by telling people to give up non-negotiable positions. You can't raise taxes and keep Congress: the tax hawks will leave, no matter what. You can't put a pro-abortion Supreme Court justice up there: the pro-lifers will leave, no matter what. And you can't give the Border Conservatives the stiff arm and keep Congress: they are leaving, right now. Concerns about the future on other issues, or yelling at them, is not going to do that. You have to give them what they want.
And the meaningful part of what they want that CAN be given to them is the sea-to-sea Fence.
"Just how much damage was done by the prior democratic imposed rulings - such as the destruction to the intelligence agencies, 'the created wall' between the agencies, the destruction of the military."
Yep, it was a total DISASTER wasn't it?
So give the BorderBots their fence and we don't have to worry about it.
"Just how much easier will it be to get conservative judges nominated and input into the Supreme Court with no majority in congress? We can't get anything through now - how is a democratic congress going to input good judges?"
A total disaster.
So give the BorderBots their sea-to-sea Fence and we don't have to worry about it.
"If I weigh the two options - democratic congress or holding with the GOP majority - I see no comparison."
Neither do I
But tax-hawks didn't give a damn about big-picture things when they abandoned the GOP in 1992. The GOP lost everything, but retooled and gave the Contract With America, which took everything and more in 1994.
And pro-lifers, like me, didn't give a damn about anything else when the totally unacceptable Miers nomination was made, not after all those years. But the President stared into the political open grave, realized that the jig was up, caved, and put up the brilliant Alito. Disaster averted.
BorderBots think that the country is lost anyway if the border isn't closed. So avoid disaster, flinch, give them their sea-to-sea fence, and we don't have to replay 1992-1994. Instead we can replay the Miers nomination with its happy ending for conservatives.
"Your method means we are always having to play catch up and never get used to being the ones in power."
It's not MY method. It's the way of the world. People have a limit beyond which they will NOT be pressed "for the good of the team". There comes a point where people defect and everything falls apart.
Bush 41 went over that limit when he raised taxes.
Bush 43 walked up to the line and tested the limit with Miers, and then wisely did NOT challenge the pro-lifers to a duel that would have ended in mutally assured destruction.
The President went over the line with the BorderBots. They will NEVER accept this proposal, because it's a finger in their eye. They got NOTHING, and they're heading out the door.
They have GOT to be brought back. And that means that the President has to lose here, and the Senate has to partly lose, and the House Republicans have to win ENOUGH that a Wall is agreed upon in the reconciliation committee bill between Senate and House. The BorderBots have to get that wall on the border, or it's over. No amount of strategizing or screaming about dire consequences will bring them back this year if they aren't appeased. See that, understand it, and understand that I am not the guy to yell at. The guy to put pressure on is President Bush and Republican (and Democrat) Senators who are opposing a sea-to-sea, physical wall NOW. They have to cave to save the party this year. 3 million + committed BorderBots CAN'T cave. That's just not human nature. Politics is the art of the possible, and keeping Congress without the BorderBot votes, or keeping the BorderBots without a wall this year is impossible.
"Your way allows for much more committee leadership positions that trail off into future GOP terms."
It's not MY way. It's what will happen. There are two options. Win, by bringing back the BorderBots with a fence. Or do anything else and lose. Really it's YOUR move.
"Your way allows for increased power base building among the already intrenched democrats. Your way allows for more democrat infiltration into every phase of government."
It's not MY way. I'd give the BorderBots their damned fence (which I don't like by the way, but understand is politically NECESSARY to save the ship) and win the election and be done with it. That's the easiest course. Trying to turn around 3 million angry people is impossible. Putting the fear of God into a few dozen Senators is easier, by comparison.
"Just how is that effective for conservatism?"
Giving the BorderBots their fence WINS THE ELECTION.
THAT'S pretty effective for conservatism.
Doing otherwise LOSES it.
That's pretty ineffective for conservatism.
"Seems that is going backwards to me. And, it seems that means you are working against us - not for us."
No, I am telling you the truth.
And I am not complaining, whingeing or whining.
I have clearly diagnosed the problem.
Clearly laid out the consequences, and clearly presscribed the cure.
Congress is well worth a wall.
Just do it.
It would be prudent to wait until the General Election before declaring any victory.
Cyber is more profound at politics than I could ever be, but I'm even more conservative. I've always voted the Republic ticket. But John McCain? J.D. Hayworth would fill my heart with joy!
Then we disagree on how to repair the damn.
I don't advocate sticking a finger in a tiny crack while watching the town flood from the gaping hole.
LA?
Work hard and good luck.
My post # 443 I commented on the same thing.
Sorry for the delay. My comput. was dragging something fierce.
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