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Federal Source to ABC News: We Know Who You're Calling
ABC News ^ | May 15 2006 | Brian Ross and Richard Esposito

Posted on 05/15/2006 8:33:11 AM PDT by jmc1969

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To: colorcountry
I see your point....you and I, nor anyone else, have ever been grilled on FreeRepublic about our posts. Poor guy, I'm glad you're here to defend him.

I've been grilled plenty. But unless someone new is clearly acting as a disruptor, we shouldn't be grilling them some hard.

181 posted on 05/15/2006 12:36:45 PM PDT by dirtboy (An illegal immigrant says my tagline used to be part of Mexico)
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To: jmc1969

BTTT


182 posted on 05/15/2006 12:42:43 PM PDT by ADemocratNoMore (Jeepers, Freepers, where'd 'ya get those sleepers?. Pj people, exposing old media's lies.)
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To: dirtboy
But unless someone new is clearly acting as a disruptor....

Yep one of those posters signed up one day after me (2 1/2 years ago), the other signed up 1 1/2 years ago. Poor newbies, they never knew what hit 'em. : )

183 posted on 05/15/2006 12:43:30 PM PDT by colorcountry (He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep, to gain what he cannot lose.)
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To: colorcountry

And you have a very interesting posting record, too. Should I assume from your numerous posts on Mormons that you're trying to alienate one of the few states that still has favorable views of this adminstration? Should I assume that what you wrote in this post means that you'd spread disinformation if given the chance? (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1630097/posts?page=10#10) Should I assume you've already done so?

I don't. I assume you've written honestly and with the best intentions for this country. If you can't assume that about me, I won't try to persuade you. It's an impossible task.

So, yes, data mine away through my few posts. Fire away at me for not posting as much as most people here. Suspect me for finally being critical of an administration that in my opinion in this case is trashing Conservative ideals and American traditions. And then ask yourself why O'Reilly, Scarborough, and others have been critical of this administration, too--if not always on this issue, then others. Are they leftwing plants? Or is it possible that being a real Conservative isn't always the same thing as being pro-administration? Is it possible we should fear what the next president will do, if it isn't one of our guys, after what we do when we're in power? Is it possible we should expect more of our leaders for the very reason that they're OUR leaders with good intentions and not just some power-hungry leftists? Is it possible this all could prompt a longtime reader of this site to finally post?


184 posted on 05/15/2006 12:58:44 PM PDT by Jumping in red OK
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To: dirtboy

Finally a sane post. Thank you, I do wonder at times...


185 posted on 05/15/2006 1:00:26 PM PDT by billbears (Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it. --Santayana)
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To: dirtboy

I guess that's the part I don't agree with, even though I understand the mistrust of government.

Right now the government has the "ability" to do many many things that would be really bad. All that keeps them from doing those bad things are people in power that don't take advantage of that power.

You don't want them to have the phone records because of what they might do with them. But to take that argument seriously, I don't want Verizon to even HAVE the records either, because, as you would say, you don't know what illegal thing the government MIGHT do, like break into the Verizon computers and steal the information.

The point is, once you presume that the government will act illegally, you might as well give up, because whatever you deny them legally they can just do illegally.

I'm saying that I see a good enough use for these records, and nothing of an aasault on my freedom from the mere EXISTANCE of the records, that I want the government to have that database.

If they use it improperly or illegally, I'll be right with you protesting. But taking away a powerful tool of protection simply because of fear that someone will, at some future time, use it for evil doesn't persuade me.

Some said the same thing when we developed the atom bomb -- we shouldn't do it, because someone will someday use it for evil purposes. But those who want to use it for evil purposes won't NOT do it because they have to take some other evil step first.

It's like criminals and guns. If we made it illegal to own guns, some say, it would deter gun crime. But the rational response is that people who are criminals won't obey the law preventing them from owning the weapon.

And a person in government willing to use the database for illegal purposes won't be deterred by the fact that getting the data is illegal.


186 posted on 05/15/2006 1:20:32 PM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: Political Junkie Too

And THAT part only deals with getting the account information -- there is NOTHING in the privacy statement suggesting they will keep the list of connected phone numbers private.


187 posted on 05/15/2006 1:21:56 PM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: Jumping in red OK
Thanks, I'm glad you're still here. I live in Utah and I am an inactive, apostate Mormon. I think that is clear when you read the history of my posts.

My post about planting information is also an action that I might take in order to expose someone whose intention might be to harm me. I will defend anything I've posted here on FreeRepublic...it is public record is it not?

Feel free to read my posts. I want you to, and that's why I post here...for others to read. When I use my cell phone, I am very aware that a record is made and kept about who I call, the time and location that I'm calling from. When I use my credit card, I am aware that a record is being made of my purchases.

When I stop my car at a red light and pick my nose, I'm aware that a record is being made, one that includes my license plate number, time and date, and shows where I was located and with whom. If a bomb detonated near that intersection within minutes of my passing, I would expect that the government would look at the record to see all those who had been in the vicinity of the bombing. I might even expect a phone call from the police.

If I were to make international calls to known terrorists, I would expect those records to be scrutinized, If I were to call known terrorist cells within the US, I would think someone would know about it. If I am not a terrorist, and called one of those terroritst phone numbers accidentally, I think my calling records would bear that out and prove my innocence, and I wouldn't fear my government looking at those records even if it was Hitlery.

I suggest we need to understand how, and why, and to what end these records were used. If they were used in an appropriate way in order to find patterns of calls made to and from terrorists in a WAR, I and most Americans have no problem with it.

OTOH if the government used my income tax records in order to slime me and "shut me up," I WOULD have a problem with that. That is exactly what the Clintons did....why do we not hear the outrage from the left?
188 posted on 05/15/2006 1:22:43 PM PDT by colorcountry (He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep, to gain what he cannot lose.)
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To: CharlesWayneCT
Right now the government has the "ability" to do many many things that would be really bad. All that keeps them from doing those bad things are people in power that don't take advantage of that power.

Such as the Clintons? That wasn't long ago, and it could happen again.

And there are two other things that keep them from taking advantage of power - the Constitution (or at least what is left of it), and the resistance of the people to potential abuses of power.

189 posted on 05/15/2006 1:25:17 PM PDT by dirtboy (An illegal immigrant says my tagline used to be part of Mexico)
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To: martin_fierro

Superseded by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act (ECPA) of 1986.


190 posted on 05/15/2006 1:27:43 PM PDT by steve-b (A desire not to butt into other people's business is eighty percent of all human wisdom)
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To: colorcountry

"OTOH if the government used my income tax records in order to slime me and "shut me up," I WOULD have a problem with that. That is exactly what the Clintons did....why do we not hear the outrage from the left?"

Because they're hypocrites.


191 posted on 05/15/2006 1:37:11 PM PDT by Jumping in red OK
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To: jmc1969

Hello, Everyone:

I'm chiming in here very late and haven't read the entire line of traffic, so apologies if I'm stepping on someone else's earlier observation . . .

Why should we take this post from Brian Ross at ABC News seriously? It's entirely possible that someone in the Fed is pulling his chain just for fun or to make Mr. Ross think that he is more important than he really is. Why aren't we hearing about these kind of mysterious warnings to other crack media investigative reporters at CBS, NBC, the New York Times, in other words the usual gang of suspects? Come on, now. If I was a nervous Fed with inside information, why would I try to protect only Brian Ross?


192 posted on 05/15/2006 5:02:31 PM PDT by drsbb
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To: Beagle8U
I really don't care if LEO's use it to track drug dealers either, I'm not one, nor do I know any.

Are you the only person who has ever owned your phone number? (I still get many solicitations for the previous owner of my phone number.) Someone thinks this number (whosever it is) belongs to someone else. I guess, it's OK if the government assumes that people trying this number want the previous owner and not me.

I have been served (or at least the attempt was made) with a Federal warrant (grand jury) that was meant for a previous owner of some property; I refused the warrant (OK, but then they wanted the guy's phone number), but the neighbors wanted to know why all the fuzz was around.

193 posted on 05/15/2006 8:13:25 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch ist der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: dirtboy
Amusing how Things Used To Be.
194 posted on 05/15/2006 8:21:41 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch ist der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: avacado

Lovely neck, ain't it? I rarely advocate plastic surgery, but maybe it would also shut her up for a few days.


195 posted on 05/16/2006 6:06:18 AM PDT by satchmodog9 (Most people stand on the tracks and never even hear the train coming)
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To: Doctor Stochastic
Amusing how Things Used To Be.

Yep. Some folks toggle their views on government usurpation of powers when the White House changes hands. I don't.

196 posted on 05/16/2006 6:40:24 AM PDT by dirtboy (An illegal immigrant says my tagline used to be part of Mexico)
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To: martin_fierro

Wow - interesting case.


197 posted on 05/16/2006 7:50:12 AM PDT by NotJustAnotherPrettyFace
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