Posted on 05/11/2006 5:46:17 PM PDT by Man50D
Sorry, mojoron, both are the same dollars. The % quoted depends upon the use of the number with the inclusive number used to compare to income tax percentages.
So, you have fallen for the propaganda Neal Boortz and others have told you about H.R. 25? Lets get down to understanding what H.R. 25 really is!
WILL H.R. 25 END EXISTING PAPERWORK AND RECORD KEEPING? NO!
TAXING CONSUMPTION__THE FOUNDER’S WAY
H.R. 25`s $600 billion a year family consumption entitlement gimmick
REVENUE NEUTRAL MEANS: let’s fund existing big government without a moment of accountability
Another observation concerning H.R. 25___ from each state according to its ability
TAX GATHERS INCREASE IN NUMBER___ self employed converted into federal tax gathers
H.R. 25 CREATES NEW RULE BOOK IN ADDITION TO RULE BOOK FOR TAXES CALCULATED FROM INCOME
Neal Boortz / Rep. Linder___ documenting lies and misleading information
Does Sean Hannity support H.R. 25, an alleged fair tax
An answer to the Steve Forbes flat tax(the founder’s fair share formula!)
SURPRISE, H.R. 25 is not a consumption tax
Regards,
JWK _a proud supporter of our founding father’s ORIGINAL TAX REFORM PLAN
"To lay with one hand the power of the government on the property of the citizen and with the other to bestow upon favored individuals, to aid private enterprises and build up private fortunes is none the less a robbery because it is done under forms of law and called taxation." ___ Savings and Loan Assc. v. Topeka,(1875).
Many readers seeing your continual diatribes attacking everything as "socialism" etc. do not realize your past connection with those in the Tax Protest movement but perhaps you've picked up a few new buyers for your "get out of income tax jail free" home study courses. Anyone wishing to find out the sort of folks you've been hob-knobing with can go to the Tax Protesters Hall of Shame and read the scam as perpetrated by your pal John Kotmair.
It's hard to see that anyone would swallow ANY of your tripe after seeing who you've been involved with - or perhaps you'd like to tell us all that you don't know John Kotmair and/or anyone else in the TP "business" and that you've never associated with anyone in that line of endeavor. How about it, Johnnicakes??? As for your links to your own vanity posts you're getting to be like Robbie on these threads who continually does that same think. You one trick ponies seem to think that linking to your own malformed information replete with misstatements and outright lies somehow makes you more credible. It doesn't! In fact, each of those nonsense links has been refuted time and time again on these threads (yet you still post them on other less active threads hoping to snare the unwary. What you opine about has already failed in the past and brought us to the first income tax in 1863 so that no sane person would expect to magically work again merely you offer 32 words that do not even do what you proclaim them to do. You are truly a buffoon.
The largest entitlement program in history. It's a leftist wet dream.
1875 came after 1863. Oh, wait, I forgot. "Fair" taxer math.
In your #244 & 245, you made some pdd claims.
The prebate is not an entitlement but a return of tax paid. You seem to be siding with your Tax Protester buddy - do you subscribe to his home study methods to not pay income tax, too???
Actually a lot of things probably happened in 1875 but the first income tax was in 1863 ... and here's a link to the forms and instructions for it:
http://www.salestax.org/library/1863form24.html
Liar. It's an entitlement payment given without an accounting of taxes allegedly paid, if any.
Yeah, you're right. It really boils down to 'transparency'.
Once people can see who might be laying a smoke screen, there won't be many more smoke screens.
TRANSPARENCY! That should be the Fair Tax Motto.
They could even call it the Transparent Tax. No more shell games, just clear vision of who is taxing what.
Backattcha, liar! It's no entitlement (and therefore requires no appropriations bill each year) but is, indeed, a return of taxes.
The taxes paid are not required to be "accounted for" - that's where your mixing up the control tof taxpauyers with the precepts of the income tax. the prebate is based only upon family size as called out in the bill. You should read HR25 since you obviously have a flawed understanding of it.
You poor obsessed welfare scammer. It's an entitlement payment given without regard to taxes allegedly paid, or to be paid, if any.
It's an entitlement payment given without regard to taxes allegedly paid, or to be paid, if any.
Hmm, helps to read the bill sometimes and couple it with , as even welfare types pay taxes under a retail sales tax system, and, on average, actually spend at higher than povertylevel for which taxes are rebated.
H.R.25Fair Tax Act of 2005 (Introduced in House)
`SEC. 301. FAMILY CONSUMPTION ALLOWANCE.`Each qualified family shall be eligible to receive a sales tax rebate each month. The sales tax rebate shall be in an amount equal to the product of--
|
Especially in light of the statistical fact of life that household consumer expenditure (from BLS consumer Expenditure Survey) actually exceeds reported incomes at lower supposed income brackets.
Seems comprehensive household "income" as reported to government is a very poor measure of a household's earnings, increase in wealth or actual consumption maintaining an above "poverty level' standard of living.
ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/special.requests/ce/standard/2001/income.txt
| Table 2. Income before taxes: Average annual expenditures and characteristics, Consumer Expenditure Survey, 2001 |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Complete reporting of income a/ | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Thus the assumption that the FCA is a rebate of taxes paid by households is a quite reasonable one and in fact understates the economic state of affairs as it exists in the United States today.
Typical cult dishonesty. Regardless of how little, if any, tax they pay they still get the entitlement.
Regardless of how little, if any, tax they pay they still get the entitlement.
Since virtually no one in the United States spends less than povertylevel in consumption, it is indeed a rebate of taxes paid whether those taxes are paid by Bill Gates or the lowest income welfare recipient, both are nevertheless paying taxes in a retail sales tax only system, a portion of which is returned in the form of the FCA sales tax rebate.
Your merely calling such an entitlement is akin to declaring income tax refunds as an entitlement. Certainly, everyone is "entitled" to receive that tax paid in excess of what they actually owe even under the current income/payroll tax system.
Your word games with its inappropriate use of the term "entitlement", simply does not answer the reality of a retail sales tax system.
A rebate of excess tax payment is due regardless of who paid the tax by virtue of expenditure exceeding povertylevel under the fairtax legislation. A condition which occurs whether one is on welfare buying goodies or Bill Gates buying that next yacht. Consumption expenditure, which is taxed under the FairTax retail sales tax system, necessitates a return of excess taxes paid regardless of who makes the expenditure.
If you consider the receipt of excess taxes paid, welfare. That is your problem, not mine. It certainly does not represent any problem to me to assure that I retain that which is not due to government to begin with.
The FCA retail sales tax rebate, as structured in the FairTax legislation, assures that I retain what is mine rather than allow govenment the use of it. If you have a problem with that, tough I don't.
There's no "cult" (except perhaps the Squirrel cult of fighting to retain the Status Quo) and certainly no dishonesty except from those trying to pretend the prebate is some sort of entitlement when it has none of the characteristics of such a welfare payment.
It is, simply, a refund of a portion of taxes paid. Guess you can't (or don't want to) understand that.
It is, simply, a refund of a portion of taxes paid. Guess you can't (or don't want to) understand that.pigdog's lying and he knows it. Suddenly he's not so proud of their (GAG!)"prebate"? He was careful to use "it" rather than using their well used "prebate" or "prefund" because that would expose the obvious "refund" lie.
...."The poor actually pay less than zero-percent retail sales tax on their spending. Much like with the earned income tax credit of today, the rebate may give them more money than they actually spend on retail taxes....""prebate"-"prefund" are NOT synonymous with refund.
FAQ #3 How does the rebate work?:
"All valid Social Security cardholders who are U.S. residents receive a monthly rebate equivalent to the FairTax paid on essential goods and services, also known as the poverty level expenditures. The rebate is paid in advance, in equal installments each month. The size of the rebate is determined by the Department of Health & Human Services’ poverty level guideline multiplied by the tax rate. This is a well-accepted, long-used poverty-level calculation that includes food, clothing, shelter, transportation, medical care, etc."Nothing there about rebating any portion of taxes "paid" since when you receive your "rebate" you haven't "paid" any taxes yet, if ever.
It is, simply, a refund of a portion of taxes paid.
Actually its better than that, the FCA sales tax rebate, being paid at the beginning of each month, is an assurance that government does not receive the free use of excess tax payment as happens under the current income/payroll tax withholding system.
The FCA sales tax rebate, assures that what is yours to begin with stays in your pocket to be used by you, and not the government.
The truth, even from there own scripture, is beyond their ability to admit. Have you ever seen cultists so given to disingenuous squirming?
It's not a rebate. And what happened to the fraudulent "prebate" label? Is the cult rewriting its propaganda?
Actually its better than that, the FCA sales tax rebate, being paid at the beginning of each month, is an assurance that government does not receive the free use of excess tax paymentOh gee who sends it to you? Where does the money PAID IN ADVANCE even if NO sales tax was paid come from? ...Santa Claus?
If sending a household a refund check for taxes they may not have paid isn't "free use of excess tax payments" I don't know what is.
If H.R. 25 is adopted, I can just picture Senator Ted Socialist Kennedy on the Senate Floor rallying to increase the family consumption allowance to offset the alleged oppressive nature of H.R. 25.
Here is an possible example of his approach
How dare our friends who have managed to adopted H.R. 25 now refuse to increase the family consumption allowance to relieve the oppressive nature of a tax which taxes the food a mother buys to feed her child, taxes the clothing she purchases to cloth that child, taxes the fuel used to heat that child’s room during winter, taxes the medicine a mother needs to care for a sickly child, and then taxes the coffin used to bury her child because she could not afford the taxes imposed upon other necessities of life under H.R. 25!
In addition, the very reason for the revenue neutral feature, another part of H.R. 25, is to insure the funding of our existing big and socialist government .
But, like all good socialists, they will spin the reasons for their big government friendly, socialists friendly tax plan.
Hopefully Sean Hannity will be smart enough to not give his support to H.R. 25 until he at least compares H.R. 25 to our founding fathers original tax plan, and does so over the air.
Regards,
JWK___ a proud supporter of our founding father’s ORIGINAL TAX REFORM PLAN
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.