Illegal workers: Boon for U.S. Economy

CNN/Money ^ | May 1, 2006 | Chris Isidore

[jmc813]

Again JMO, you seem to be the expert in vapid drivel.

Vapid alert

[SJackson]

"Expand the concept to the electrical and plumbing trades as well."...It is happening all around me already and has been for the last 8 -10 years. The kids who are to graduate next month from all the State Technical High Schools have no chance of getting jobs in their chosen fields. Guess who's taking up all the entry level / apprentice positions?...You can extrapolate your concept to include Heating HVAC, Auto Body technician, Carpentry, Woodworking and a few others......

If we could get the states to enforce laws pertaining to professional registration the way the Feds enforce immigration laws, there are opportunities for dentists, doctors, and nurses as well.

[Cyropaedia]

Labor is not a commodity just like everything else. Even the late great Julian Simon understood this. Thus his theory involving "negative human capital externalities" helped explain a lot of the problems of attempting to integrate various kinds of immigrants into a society. The NHCE's were a big part of the reason the Libertarian Simon actually opposed open boders.

Dane, the real reason the that guy at the corner is able to sell gas at one dollar a gallon is because of taxpayer subsidies. The illegals are collectively cheap because the public subsidizes the schooling of their children (more school bonds, bilingual programs), subisdized housing (section 8, HUD housing), little or no income taxes (i.e. EITC), medical (Medical, medicaid, medicare, emergency room visits), food stamps, S.S. checks for elderly immigrant relatives who relatively little or no mony into the system before qualifying for Social Security, increased gang-like crime (illegals in jails and prisons), the high cost of the truancy epidemic(the hispanic dropout is anywhere between 45 to 50 % depending on the county/state they live in).

As usual, you have a problem seeing the big picture...

[papertyger]

Vapid alert

Is that the kind of alert where they point powerful spotlights into the night sky, and don't turn them on? :o)

[taxed2death]

Most people who follow immigration threads think I have some hard-on against hispanics. Nothing could be further from the truth. I really can't stand the Messssican government but that rant is for another thread/ another time. I look at the "immigration" problem from an economic standpoint first...

Being a small businessman is tough enough with Goobermint as a silent partner..The reams of paperwork I have to go through to run 3 businesses would boggle the mind of a mid level corporate paper pusher. To add to this quandary the fact that Jose' and Jos-B up the street can undercut (one) of my businesses pisses me off to no end. The government is 100% complicit in this disaster and has been for some time.

Government has effectively turned thousands of small and large business owners into criminals while making the rest of the "holdouts" have absolutely no voice at all. None.
I applaud GWB for at least stirring the pot and getting the subject on the table. I'm all for a seasonal worker program as long as the workers don't linger and start sucking up social services.
I am 100% adamantly against ANY Amnesty. I consider it "Amnesty" enough to let the illegals go home... and reapply for a work visa in a legal fashion and at the end of the line. That to me, is a suitable Amnesty.

Taking the politically expedient route of waving a magic wand and turning illegals into LEGALS is such a disservice to those legit business owners who have played by the rules for so long.....it just makes my blood boil. That is truly Un American. To think of the money (hundreds of thousands) that some of my customers who own small businesses have lost over the years being underbid by scumbag tax cheats makes me sick. What is just compensation for *not* having $500,000 or 750,000 in your possession because you were under bid for 30% or 40% of the jobs you went for the last 10+ years. You want to talk about "fair"
as someone had mentioned on this thread?

LOL

If government can get their $hit together and have a way to prove ones status, that in and of itself would be a great service. Right now I have to do the Nexus thing... and piss away $49.00 for each inquiry to a potential hires back ground.... if there's too many "pieces of the puzzle" missing from their history... I send 'em on their way.

/rant over. I won't even get into the sovereignty issues....LOL

[lemura]

Presume they're made "legal" by the stroke of a pen.

Never happen, because once the ink is dry, they would no longer have to work at the same jobs for the same wage rates. Right now, illegals cause tremendous deflationary P&L effects throughout the entire economy by masking their true balance sheet costs in the form of back-loaded debt.

Once legal, they would no be the low-cost, subservient, submissive and servile 'perfect' empolyees. They would merely become like every other worker entitled to negogiate fairly for the price of their labor. The wage spike alone is one reason the guest worker program will never succeed.

[marty60]

Oh really, then why do the illegals rush to get on the dole. I heard one illegal prisoner ( areal genius) that said that everything in America was free. Ofcourse that is why he is in jail.

[marty60]

Oh really, then why do the illegals rush to get on the dole. I heard one illegal prisoner ( areal genius) that said that everything in America was free. Ofcourse that is why he is in jail.

[marty60]

Oh really, then why do the illegals rush to get on the dole. I heard one illegal prisoner ( areal genius) that said that everything in America was free. Ofcourse that is why he is in jail.

[papertyger]

The government is 100% complicit in this disaster and has been for some time.

The dirty little secret of our current "free trade" types is they are allowing the regulatory burden born by American business to be bypassed by the Mexican business and workers.

I have no problem with Mexican tomatos being sold in American markets. I have a BIG problem with American tomato farmers having to plow under their crop because regulatory costs imposed by their own government are waived for Mexican tomato farmers.

Since when do we approve throwing productive familiy members out of the house to make room for underprivileged strangers?

And any SOB who calles that one of the "(usual suspect)-isms" deserves no better than a Jane Fonda liberal.

[SJackson]

Being a small businessman is tough enough with Goobermint as a silent partner..The reams of paperwork I have to go through to run 3 businesses would boggle the mind of a mid level corporate paper pusher. To add to this quandary the fact that Jose' and Jos-B up the street can undercut (one) of my businesses pisses me off to no end. The government is 100% complicit in this disaster and has been for some time….Government has effectively turned thousands of small and large business owners into criminals while making the rest of the "holdouts" have absolutely no voice at all. None….I applaud GWB for at least stirring the pot and getting the subject on the table. I'm all for a seasonal worker program as long as the workers don't linger and start sucking up social services….I am 100% adamantly against ANY Amnesty. I consider it "Amnesty" enough to let the illegals go home... and reapply for a work visa in a legal fashion and at the end of the line. That to me, is a suitable Amnesty….Taking the politically expedient route of waving a magic wand and turning illegals into LEGALS is such a disservice to those legit business owners who have played by the rules for so long.....it just makes my blood boil… If government can get their $hit together and have a way to prove ones status, that in and of itself would be a great service.

I completely agree with you. Along with splitting immigrants into two categories, legal and illegal, actually migrants, we’ve split employers into two groups, those who follow that law and those who don’t.

Although the big outcry over HR4437 is the creation of a felony offence for the 1st illegal entry, instead of the 2nd as under current law, I think the real reason for the opposition in the pro-illegal community is the employer check. With a immediate ss# verification available to employers, there’s no longer any reasonable excuse for employing illegals with mismatched ss#s “in error”. If enforced, a big if, it would dry up the employment market.

Amnesty/guest workers is a separate issue. I’d speculate we need a migrant labor program, but it should be just that, migrant labor subject to regional need, and in no way a path to citizenship. Though I doubt it would happen, I’d like to see birthright citizenship re-visited in that regard, treating migrant employees as we treat foreign diplomats and members of foreign military, not subject to the jurisdiction of the US, thus no citizenship for their US born children.

[taxed2death]

Seems like we're in agreement.
I think all US citizens should have to run a small (successful) business for three years....LOL.... kinda like how each Swiss citizen has to serve a year in the National Guard over there.

[William Terrell]

Try to understand. Illegals work fro very low wages. They do not under any form of the expression, create wealth. They work as domestic laborers, construction, farm labor, dishwashers, waiters.

They get paid low wages, enabling their employers to make more money, which the employers spend in the system. If the employers hired regular Americans at higher wages, they would make less money and the employees would make more, both of which would spend that money in the system.

Illegal aliens spend little money and depend on services paid for by the American taxpayer in order to send a great part of the wealth they make out of the country into another country where it no longer makes its way into the American, but does into the Mexican system.

The only way they can send this money is because they are subsidized by the work and labor of you and I.

This is commonsense. You don't need a degree in economics to understand it, nor double talking apologists writing senseless papers to which you link to try to confuse the issue.

Why does someone have to explain this simple principle to you? Are you in this country illegally, or do you capitalize off the cheap labor and wish to continue doing so on the backs of the American people?

Yes, do, indeed, go back to work. You're paying for the health care and education of breakers and enterers. They need you.

[Uncle Vlad]

$200 Billion a year in depressed wages is good for America. Yeah, right.

[GSlob]

#32

[FBD]

unfortunately, the undocumented labor pool is subsidized with health care, welfare, food stamps, education, etc.
If these incentives were removed, then the playing field, (and prices) would be leveled.

I don't think any propsed guest worker program is (unfortunately) going to address those issues, are they?

[The Foolkiller]

You want a Socialist America? I am afraid you will get what you wish...

---

You want a third world America? i am afraid you will get what you wish...

[Seeing More Clearly Now]

American citizens can do all the jobs that are needed in America. They've just gotton lazy.

[talleyman]

I've done more crappy jobs over the years than I care to remember. I did them to make money and move up the ladder.

Me too. But there's a whole lotta not-me-or-you's out there. (BTW, in the particular industry I cited, no the wages are not exploitive, and the owners are not greedy - the available locals don't want to work.)