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Pitt Professor's Theory of Evolution Gets Boost From Cell Research [Sudden Origins]
University of Pittsburgh ^ | 26 January 2006 | Staff

Posted on 01/26/2006 11:47:13 AM PST by PatrickHenry

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To: EternalVigilance
Can't find any intermediate species in the fossil record...not a one...

You might find this discussion of Archeopteryx interesting.

141 posted on 01/27/2006 6:33:48 PM PST by Virginia-American
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Placemarker and link to The List-O-Links
142 posted on 01/27/2006 7:12:01 PM PST by PatrickHenry (True conservatives revere Adam Smith, Charles Darwin, and the Founding Fathers.)
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To: Virginia-American
Is there any correlation between periods when the Earth's magnetic field is flipping and the rise of new species?

I have no idea...interesting concept, though.

143 posted on 01/28/2006 1:44:58 AM PST by Rudder
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Comment #144 Removed by Moderator

To: longshadow
General Ripper alert!


145 posted on 01/28/2006 8:08:01 AM PST by PatrickHenry (True conservatives revere Adam Smith, Charles Darwin, and the Founding Fathers.)
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To: EternalVigilance
Can't find any intermediate species in the fossil record...not a one...

You know, I could live with creation/ID being ultimately wrong about how it accounts for the evidence. Being right about that is the ultimate prize, and no one knows for sure when the ultimate is reached.

I can't abide how it's wrong about what the evidence even is. That is either pig-ignorance or simple dishonesty.

146 posted on 01/28/2006 9:05:24 AM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: PatrickHenry; cabouth
From that long thing above:

The poisoners are playing God; they rebel against God and everything that is God and Truth. They hate God and they hate the Truth. They are of that line that we’ve been warned against time and time again…they are of the line that was disinherited 2000 years ago. They do not worship the One and Only True God, our Father in Heaven; they worship that which is evil; they are anti-Christ – they are many….”But woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to you, and he is filled with fury because he knows his time is short”…..”the great dragon who was hurled down out of heaven who leads the whole world astray….” .—they are known as Illuminati, Elite, proponents of their “New World Order”, and other secret sects and societies.

Emphasis added

Now who does that sound like? I remember about some group poisoning wells in Europe...

147 posted on 01/28/2006 9:10:01 AM PST by Virginia-American
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To: cabouth

148 posted on 01/28/2006 9:13:54 AM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: Virginia-American; VadeRetro
It seems that "cabouth" is no longer with us.
149 posted on 01/28/2006 9:33:03 AM PST by PatrickHenry (True conservatives revere Adam Smith, Charles Darwin, and the Founding Fathers.)
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To: VadeRetro

What, you have a bunch of skulls of...gasp!...people who are DIFFERENT from each other? What a discovery? /sarcasm


150 posted on 01/28/2006 9:40:37 AM PST by EternalVigilance (Genuine Menace)
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To: PatrickHenry
Posts nuked as well. Which tends to mean "cabouth" has been with us before.
151 posted on 01/28/2006 9:41:37 AM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: EternalVigilance
So there's no evidence because you refuse to see any? Follows the template beautifully:

  1. Tap-Dancing Science-Denier declares that the fossil record lacks instances of things changing in an orderly series from some Thing A to Thing Z. As this kind of evidence is to be expected, the lack of it must weigh against evolution having happened. By the very statement of this objection we are invited to believe the Tap-Dancing Science-Denier would accept such evidence IF ONLY IT EXISTED but the thing is it doesn't exist.
  2. Someone who disagrees demonstrates many instances well known in the literature of fossil series intermediate in form and time between some Thing A and some Thing Z.
  3. The Tap-Dancer then declares fossil series evidence to be irrelevant. How do we know ... various things? The dates of the fossils? Whether fossil A lies exactly on the ancestral line of fossil B?
But wasn't the evidence valid when it was supposedly missing?

152 posted on 01/28/2006 9:47:47 AM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: EternalVigilance
Well it disproves your original claim: can't find any intermediate species in the fossil record...not a one

The gradual sequence of fossil change as shown in the "bunch of skulls" demonstrates intermediate fossil species. If you disagree then what would intermediate fossil species look like instead? If you don't know what intermediate fossil species should look like then how can you be sure none have been found?

153 posted on 01/28/2006 9:48:00 AM PST by bobdsmith
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To: EternalVigilance
What, you have a bunch of skulls of...gasp!...people who are DIFFERENT from each other? What a discovery? /sarcasm

Forgot to say, "Congratulations on being an extremely fast if not at all accurate reader!"

154 posted on 01/28/2006 9:50:49 AM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: VadeRetro

Sorry to interupt your religious observances. Carry on...


155 posted on 01/28/2006 9:52:52 AM PST by EternalVigilance (Genuine Menace)
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To: VadeRetro; Virginia-American
The odd thing is that I had never seen that particular version of insanity before. It was sort of a science conspiracy about copper poisoning, blood types, Jews, and the Illuminati. Ah ... with those words in a Google search, I've found a website that may be the source of the now-deleted essay (but there are a few others with the same material). Savor the madness: Illuminati: Poisoning of Mankind - Copper Deficiency.
156 posted on 01/28/2006 9:56:09 AM PST by PatrickHenry (True conservatives revere Adam Smith, Charles Darwin, and the Founding Fathers.)
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To: EternalVigilance
Do hit and run again sometime.
157 posted on 01/28/2006 9:56:25 AM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: PatrickHenry
Yup. C. A. Bouthillier again.
158 posted on 01/28/2006 9:58:07 AM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: VadeRetro

You're so far over his head...


159 posted on 01/28/2006 9:58:18 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: AndrewC
How Lamarckian!

See also: Genomes 2nd Ed 2002, T. A. BROWN, Department of Biomolecular Sciences, Manchester UK 14.1. Programmed mutations? Excerpt

In 1988 startling results were published suggesting that under some circumstances Escherichia coli bacteria are able to mutate in a directed way that enables cells to adapt to an environmental stress. The randomness of mutations is an important concept in biology because it is a requirement of the Darwinian view of evolution, which holds that changes in the characteristics of an organism occur by chance and are not influenced by the environment in which the organism is placed. In contrast, the Lamarckian theory of evolution, which biologists rejected well over a century ago, states that organisms acquire changes that enable them to adapt to their environment. The Darwinian view requires that mutations occur at random, whereas Lamarckian evolution demands that programmed mutations occur in response to the environment.

...< snip > ...

The results of Cairns et al. 1988 showed that when the lactose auxotrophs were plated onto a minimal medium containing lactose as the only sugar - circumstances that require that the bacteria must mutate into lactose prototrophs in order to survive - then the number of lactose prototrophs that arose was significantly higher than that expected if mutations occurred randomly. In other words, some cells underwent programmed mutation and acquired the specific change in DNA sequence needed to withstand the selective pressure.

Since 1988, a number of examples of what appear to be programmed mutations have been published, but the notion that bacteria, and possibly other organisms, can program mutations in response to environmental stress is by no means accepted by the scientific community. It is quite possible that these mutations will eventually be disproved or be shown to have an orthodox basis. However, until this happens we are left with the tantalizing possibility that even at this fundamental level our knowledge about genomes might be far from complete.

BTW, I think Dr. James Shapiro may have suffered the ideational flu of hubris regarding the over-generaity of his findings on rates of mutants in single cell organizisms -- more complex organisms have even more magnitudes of layers to fight off mutations. AND while the bacteria are singleton cell organisms, in many ways the very environment in which they grow acts as a sort of super-organism, and with that super-organism more layers of mutation-resitance. Shapiro's studies perhaps may have provided the very type of unrealistic forced lab environment most condusive to permitting mutations and encouraging the vitality of mutants.
160 posted on 01/28/2006 10:04:34 AM PST by bvw
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