Witnesses heard no talk of bomb

Orlando Sentinel ^ | December 9 | Mark Schlueb Sentinel Staff Writer

[dmz]

To a sane person, absolutely.

To someone bipolar, it matters not what you say. They're not occupying the same "space" as you or I.

We hospitalized my mother (diagnosed bipolar in her 60's) just days before she was to flown overseas. I have absolutely no doubt that she would have been incredibly disruptive and downright scary to the other passengers.

There are no easy answers, but I have to assume that the marshall was acting in good faith.

[joseph20]

Didn't you hear the reports that he starting reaching into his bag as the officers were shouting the commands to "get on the ground"?

[RambozoDClown]

Thank you for that breath of fresh air. The word "bomb" is the trump card in the airport.It justifies any action on the part of the PoLice. I am not saying the authorities actions weren't justified, I don't know, I wasn't there. What I do like to see is people questioning the "official" version of these types of stories. Sounds like the cops were causing a lot of terror themselves, pointing there guns at seated people's heads who had no connection to the crazy guy running around screaming.

[Narcoleptic]

u know, the guy had a mental problem, and yet he still was doing missionary work. u have to feel sad for him, the story is just really depressing because he may have had a disease, but he seemed like he was a decent person

i think that the risk of hijackings is minimal since the entire flight will fight the hijacker, and someone carrying explosives onto a flight is lower due to the air puffing explosive machines in the TSA security checkpoints,

the only thing that is still unsafe is the risk of a lockerbie style bomb in the luggage that sneaks onto a flight

air marshals are good, but the risk just isn't that great anymore, it does no good to fight yesterdays tactics today

but i digress, I really felt bad for this guy
may he rest in peace

[Izzy Dunne]

But Alpizar had already left the plane and was no risk to the other passengers.

Had he suggled a bomb ONTO the plane, he certainly could have left it there.

Alpizar has no history of making threats.

Completely unknown to the marshal at the time, completely irrelevant anyway.

He was returning from volunteer missionary work.

Completely unknown to the marshal at the time, completely irrelevant anyway.

[Sweetjustusnow]

Joseph20 is exactly right (see his first post).

It is unfortunate that a human being was killed. But the air marshals did the right thing. They didn't know he was mentally ill and his behavior alone is what got him killed. He clearly exhibited every aspect of a person that should be dealt with immediately as a threat to other persons.

One other thing;

"He was not someone who would disrespect the law," sister-in-law Violeta Castro O'Sullivan said from Costa Rica."

If that's the case, he himself looking at his own behavior through the lens of sanity, would have to admit he showed all signs of being a clear and imminent threat to others.

[L98Fiero]

"And I agree with neither of you."

But I DO agree with you. (Getting confusing, isn't it?)

Since the guy did not have a bomb, this is a tragic event that could have been prevented, most likely, by the man taking his meds. It was irresponsibly dangerous not to have taken them and it cost him his life. I feel for the guy's family but he really gave the Marshal no other choice. If there is one place you don't eff around, it's at the airport.

[brytlea]

How would they have known who might have had a connection to him?
susie

[Sweetjustusnow]

My thoughts exactly when I read the articles.

My bet is that there may be more to this than we will ever know. I'm glad to know those air marshals are there.

[Raycpa]

Questions:

1. did he say I have a bomb after he left the plane?

2. how close were these folks, planes are very noisy and its tough to hear people next to you let alone people 2 or 3 seats away

[oceanview]

I am not defending this guy, I think the air marshalls did fine. I was just commenting that there had to be some context to disobeying the air marshall to justify a shooting. there are people moving up and down the aisles doing all sorts of stuff before pushback, this dude had to be doing something more for this to escalate into a shooting.

[billorites]

Good heavens, man.
He's got a bim!

[Ol' Dan Tucker]

Didn't you hear the reports that he starting reaching into his bag as the officers were shouting the commands to "get on the ground"?

No, I didn't.

But I did read reports where the air marshalls said he reached into his bag.

See the difference?

In order to really know what happened after he got off the plane, we'd need a video of what happened in the jetway.

Otherwise, it's a he-said/she-said with one side being dead and unable to refute what the air marshall's claimed afterward.

The fact that there are several passengers who clearly contradict what the air marshalls claim Alpizar said while 'running up and down the aisles' points to the distinct possibility that they are not being entirely forthright about what happened in the jetway.

[Cboldt]

Not to mention that it was coming from Colombia...

That's irrelevant. The aircraft being boarded happened to have originated in Columbia, but the guy did no arrive on that flight, and all PAX on that flight had to pass through Miami security.

The inquiry boils down to whether or not the shooter reasonably apprehended a deadly threat. If the shooter thought the guy had a bomb (and security is presumed to be imperfect - anybody could have a bomb), then the shooting is justified. The official position is that the shooter thought the guy had a bomb. Case closed.

I personally think it was a tragedy, but innocents are killed by LEO from time to time. It's part of life. Certainly a big deal to those personally affected, and I don't mean to belittle that, but it is unreasonable to expect perfection from humans.

In fact, that's one of my general beefs with the entire "security" racket promulgated by Congress - the aim to instill a sense that "they" can perfect security, if only we give more money, etc.

[Raycpa]

as if a real bomber would get OFF the plane with his bomb,

There was no way of knowing what he left on the plane. Such behavior would be consitant with a bomber who planned on setting a remote activated bomb.

[TCats]

This whole thing has had a stench about it from the get go. I think there were two parties who were panicked at the time - This unfortunate passenger AND the two Marshals.

IMO The whole story is just too pat - Yelling 'Bomb' and then making threatening movements after exiting the plane. I just don't buy it.

[Raycpa]

When did it become part of the philosophy of the Right to automatically justify the shooting of an unarmed citizen by Federal officials?

When did conservatives make judgements without the facts available? You are speculating.

[Jigsaw John]

A Miami-Dade police spokeswoman said Thursday that multiple witnesses reported that the 44-year-old was yelling that he had a bomb as he made his way down the aisle with a backpack slung across his chest. Later, the agency's chief of investigations insisted that Alpizar was yelling about a bomb but declined to say whether he was on the plane at the time.

First question I would have is where did the Miami-Dade police spokeswoman obtain her information?

[Cboldt]

Sounds like the cops were causing a lot of terror themselves, pointing there guns at seated people's heads who had no connection to the crazy guy running around screaming.

I'm glad I wasn't there. I had being delayed on flights. But security is necessarily a humorless business - you step into an airport, and you are automatically "cattle" and "presumed suspect" to those charged with oversight of the transporation operation.

Events of 9/11 changed everything, it just taking some folks a little longer to realize it.

[areafiftyone]

Like I said in another post - the wife should have made sure that the man took his medication if he was bi-polar. His needing to get off the plane because of his paranoia could have been avoided if he took his medication. I've seen bi-polar people talk to imaginary aliens who they think are visiting them from another planet. If he was running around up and down the aisle like they said he was - then he was probably having a serious episode. Regardless there is no way the Marshalls would have known this so she is as much responsible for his death as they are.