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"Intelligent Design": Stealth War on Science
Revolutionary Worker ^ | November 6, 2005

Posted on 11/01/2005 6:27:26 PM PST by Tailgunner Joe

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To: js1138
When a critic starts an argument by saying Evolution is predicated on an hypothesis that the moon is made of green cheese, nothing worthwhile is likely to follow.

It's made of Gorgonzola. I thought everyone knew that.

161 posted on 11/03/2005 4:44:32 AM PST by RogueIsland
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To: js1138

Dunno. A good sub-thread might follow on the relative merits of different types of green cheese, and if green paint on cheese counts.;->


162 posted on 11/03/2005 4:45:24 AM PST by From many - one.
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To: RogueIsland; js1138

See what I mean?


163 posted on 11/03/2005 4:49:36 AM PST by From many - one.
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To: From many - one.
Or were you using "class" more colloquially?

That would be my excuse. That and the Oxytocin made me do it.

164 posted on 11/03/2005 4:53:48 AM PST by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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To: js1138

Gotta get me some of that stuff.

Can it help me leap tall buildings in a single bound?

What is it with oxycontin? I know it's supposed to be addictive, but what else?


165 posted on 11/03/2005 5:02:12 AM PST by From many - one.
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To: From many - one.

I knew nothing at all about it until I read that the Dover school board used it. I figure if something is good enough for the people in charge of educating our children, it's good enough for me.


166 posted on 11/03/2005 5:06:07 AM PST by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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To: js1138
I notice an correlation between your ranting and the criticism of evolution and ignorance of its basic principles.

We should keep two issues distinct: (a) the criticism of evolution and (b) the qaulity of communication between disparate levels of ability of understanding.

If evolution does not concern itself with this feature, something else does. Or is it that you wish to deny the existence of complexity?

My general goal has been to stick to learning and education rather than turning another's loss into a side-show sport. I think it helps build a character of patience, which is greatly needed in an ambitious and adolescent world.

167 posted on 11/03/2005 5:25:41 AM PST by cornelis (Fecisti nos ad te.)
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To: cornelis

Being intoxicated this early in the morning is not good.


168 posted on 11/03/2005 5:32:41 AM PST by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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To: cornelis
I did take note of your use of the emotionally laden word "ranting" in what purported to be a dispassionate post.


If people who know nothing about a subject persist in blithering on, there is no need for the more knowledgeable to persist in patient explanations.
169 posted on 11/03/2005 5:39:01 AM PST by From many - one.
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To: Tailgunner Joe
"All you have to do to prove ID is wrong is show that irreducible complexity does not exist in nature."

So you made two fatal errors in one statement:

1. To prove something by showing something doesn't exist is impossible. Therefore this won't count as a possible method to disprove ID.
(I would call that the running ID gap. "Sorry, Mr. Behe that system isn't IC." - "Tata! Here is another IC system.")

2. ID first have to show that IC systems are only possible via ID. Therefore the existence of IC systems is no proof of ID.
170 posted on 11/03/2005 5:40:32 AM PST by MHalblaub (Tell me in four more years (No, I did not vote for Kerry))
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To: cornelis
Translation: I have no idea what point you are trying to make.

My point is simple. If you intend to be a critic of science you must understand it and not argue against straw men.

If you debate, you must understand your opponent's position and be able to state it correctly.

I have noticed that most of the evolution critics on these threads are unaware of what biologists have to say about evolution. This could be remedied by a bit of reading. Ernst Mayr's This is Biology would be a good start.

Oddly enough, most of the ID supporters on these threads have no idea what the ideological founders of ID have to say. Posters on these threads are generally unaware that Behe, Denton and, to some extent, Dembsky, accept the historical fact of evolution even while being skeptical of natural selection as the only shaping force.

Nothing on these threads is so technical that it is inaccessible to someone interested in learning. Having strong opinions on a technical subject without basic knowledge is inexcusable.

171 posted on 11/03/2005 5:44:55 AM PST by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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To: js1138

Carry on.


172 posted on 11/03/2005 5:44:56 AM PST by cornelis (Fecisti nos ad te.)
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To: js1138

In terms of biomass, bacteria, beetles, and earthworms are candidates for the most.

In terms of diversity of individuals and habitat, it would have to be bacteria.


173 posted on 11/03/2005 5:47:25 AM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch ist der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: From many - one.

Half blue cheese and yellow cheese respectively, well blended, may look green at the distance of the Moon.


174 posted on 11/03/2005 5:48:30 AM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch ist der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: js1138
That and the Oxytocin made me do it.

Perhaps "Oxytocin" is the name of The Designer.

175 posted on 11/03/2005 5:49:25 AM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch ist der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: Doctor Stochastic
In terms of diversity of individuals and habitat, it would have to be bacteria.

My point is that the modal trend in evolution is not toward greater complexity.

176 posted on 11/03/2005 5:52:01 AM PST by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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To: Doctor Stochastic

Sacre bleu!

What a cheesy suggestion. Mixing color cheeses is an affront to the palette.


177 posted on 11/03/2005 5:53:15 AM PST by From many - one.
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To: js1138
The shoe fits all sides.

One of the attitudes that is becoming popular is to demand people find out things for themselves. Why not rather join the conversation? I've discovered that no matter how well others understand things and post them on various websites, and publish their ideas, and teach them, it helps me to understand things for myself by "professing" the views myself. It's a pedagogic stance that is more interested in dissemination of knowledge rather than score-keeping with insuations.

The advice that I have tried to follow: "Whatever is true, whatever is honest, whatever is of good report, think about these things. "

With constant Hope,

178 posted on 11/03/2005 5:55:19 AM PST by cornelis (Fecisti nos ad te.)
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To: js1138
My point is that the modal trend in evolution is not toward greater complexity.

Yes, you have a point. And another point is that fitness and survival involves a trend toward the opposite.

179 posted on 11/03/2005 5:57:44 AM PST by cornelis (Fecisti nos ad te.)
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To: js1138

The "trend" looks a lot like just "drifting into a niche" (or sort of like some movies I've seen.)


180 posted on 11/03/2005 5:58:04 AM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch ist der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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