Posted on 11/01/2005 7:43:16 AM PST by Diamond
These Rabbinical experts can be a slippery crutch, because guess what they were just men too.
And let slip the cats of war....
To the contrary, they are synonymous. You just have a funny idea about what a christian is - as do many people professing to be such..
Ah, so experts in language that disallow the nonsense one attempts to perpetrate - now they're a slippery bunch.. but experts in science on the other hand..
The fun thing with the Rabbis is that you get a twofer with them. You get experts in the language (their own) and you get experts in what the passages mean from the Judaic context - their origin as it happens. Were you not a bunch of hacks and frauds, you'd have to admit that whatever you say would have to be viewed in the light of the experts on the matter. Since they disagree with you on every point, well, now they're a slippery bunch - not to be trusted.
That's how we parse BS. Care to try again?
Who cares if they believe "jesus" is lord? Jesus is nothing but a label to many. They peel it off a sheet and afix it to whatever they will. Doctrine is something they make up from philosophy because they don't like what scripture has to say. They get bent out of joint and decide they know better than God - as a result, they stop following God and start following what "seems right to them" by way of philosophy. However harsh that may seem, that is the fact. And no amount of lovey dovey "it's ok" crap is going to fix it. Making them understand that there is a difference is what fixes it.
Catholics are told a great many things.. SO WHAT. How many times does Scripture record that not every man who calls on Christ will enter heaven. Saying "Jesus Christ is Lord" doesn't make you saved. I can go out and line up 200 heathens who can say the same thing - does that make them saved. Or does the scripture actually state that if not for the Holy spirit, no one would be able to make that claim. Oops. Mr. obvious.
I willingly seperate myself from people who claim Christianity and yet know not a whit of what is Christian. The differences between Christianity and Catholicism are manifold. Remove the names from Catholicism and it becomes a pagan religion with no resemblance whatever to Christianity. I don't deny the reality of God's creation. I just deny the fraudulent Claims of Rome.
There's a tiny group of Orthodox Jews -- the Hasidim, whose spiritual lineage wasn't Orthodox a few centuries ago -- that propounds the 24x6 reading. The rest are notably open to day-age. If you spoke Hebrew as a first language you would be more likely to be day-age as well; Biblical Hebrew has a much tinier vocabulary than even early translations of the Old Testament and if you read an interlinear literal English translation you will find terms like "lip of the river" and "bottom of God".
Orthodox Rabbi Dr. J. H. Hertz (1872-1946) wrote:
God the Creator and Lord of the Universe, which is the work of his goodness and wisdom; and Man, made in His image, who is to hallow his week-day labors by the blessedness of Sabbath-rest -- such are the teachings of the Creation chapter. It's purpose is to reveal these teachings to the children of man -- and not to serve as a text book of astronomy, geology, or antropology. Its object is not to teach scientific facts; but to proclaim highest religious truths respecting God, Man, and the Universe. The "conflict" between the fundamental realities of Religion and the established facts of Science, is seen to be unreal as the soon as Religion and Science each recognizes the true border of its domain.
Also, Jeffrey H. Tigay, Professor of Hebrew and Semitic Languages and Literatures in the Department of Oriental Studies at the University of Pennsylvania has written:
Thus a literal reading of the Bible, on which "creation science" implicitly insists, misses the point of the Bible itself, which seems uninterested in literal interpretation. Like poetry and certain kinds of prose, which sometimes speak in metaphors and symbols, the Bible as a whole does not intend these stories to be taken literally. Literalism is not only misleading but is also a disservice to the cause of the Bible itself. It forces the Bible to compete as science, and in such a competition it cannot win. In a scientific age such as ours the Bible will never be accepted as science by educated people. What is more, attempting to secure acceptance for it as science is hardly worthwhile, for this would divert attention away from the Bible's religious message to details which from a religious point of view are trivial. The religious message is precisely the realm in which science cannot compete, and those devoted to the cause of the Bible would do far better service to their cause by stressing its unique religious message. To the religious person it makes little difference whether the world was created in six days or several billion years.
Modern translations and modern looseness with language are hardly support for you. And, no, the 24x6 concept is not a new one nor non-orthodox. My family is part Jewish. I also
go to Rabbinical sources to find out for myself on these matters. What you proffer comes from more modern liberalism.
The loosening of language has given way to all sorts of mischief. It's like people arguing that "replenish" means that the earth was being filled a second time because they are ignorant of King James English and of Hebrew. The root word in Hebrew meant to fill, the English at the time could mean "to refill" or "to fill". The english later came to strictly mean "to re-fill". Ignorance of language combined with changing of language (looseness) creates problems in modern understanding. And liberals tend to prey upon this instinctively.
And? Did you have a point. Seems if you could find someone saying what you wanted, you would have. Where's the all knowing liberal scholarship.. You'll note that neither of your sources speak directly to the matter and instead speak in wishy washy possibilities. Genesis is written in the non-poetic form of the language - which I'm sure both of your sources knew and could not get by with dancing around - so they did their best without directly addressing it.
The bible itself uses "yom" [day] in the sense of "age" even in the Gen. 2 recap of the creation. Elsewhere, eras have been known to have "boker" [morning] and "erev" [evening]. 6x24 dogmatism is pretty lame. False piety to KJV has aggravated this situation.
No, but it might be time for a refreshment as you seem to have surrendered. That is the sign of someone resorting to ad hom.
I beg your pardon, but those quote spoke directly to the issue being discussed in this thread.
What you're arguing, you argue in absence of facts you don't like. Never in the bible does the word Yom associated with the definite article and a numeral specific ever more than a 24 hour day. Ever. What yom "can" mean is quite different than what it does mean when proper grammar is applied. That is the fence you're trying to hedge around. The KJV has not a whit to do with it. And the 6x24 "dogmatism" isn't dogma, it's a matter of language. Words mean things. If what they mean happens to be unyeilding, that is your problem, not mine.
You can beg pardon all you wish, you don't have it - as though it were a given. They speak in generic terms hoping to weasle around the truth.. nothing more. As I noted, Genesis is not written in the poetic sense - the which one of your sources attempts to allude to knowing he can't directly state it without lying. Neither of them states yom in Genesis 1 is anything other than a 24 hour day. They couldn't sustain the notion due to the language. What they do is beg an argument against strict literalism. We aren't talking about literalism - we're talking about seriousness. And to take it seriously requires binding oneself to the language and it's strict meaning. At that point your argument fails.
Switch to decaf, please. Thank you.
You mean stop making sense, right... lol
I mean stop lashing out.
Lashing out? Puzzled. Guess one must be lashing out in order to take a hardline stance, huh..
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