Evolution and intelligent design Life is a cup of tea

Economist ^ | 10/6/05 | Economist

[Thatcherite]

Intelligent freedom loving Britons??? I doubt it. ;)

[Junior]

True... most with that disposition long ago moved here... ;^)>

[Thatcherite]

Have you noticed the incoherence level of certain posters increasing somewhat? :)) It must be hard to type through the haze of spittle.

[atlaw]

Adding a little more "insulant" bull to the pot, why the after-thought of Eve (failure to anticipate horniness?), and why the flood and global do-over?

[blowfish]

Oh, there's so many examples of god's semi-competence in the whole design thing; it's not even worth compiling a complete list.

[Dimensio]

It was taught in the universities.

I'm sure that you can provide historical references to support this claim, right?

[Dimensio]

Evolution says millions and millions of years. God says six normal 24 hour days.

False dichotomy. Your personal religious beliefs regarding the timespans for divine action are not the only religious beliefs out there. Not everyone who does not hold the exact same religious beliefs as you is an atheist.

Evolution claims to base it's years upon a fossil record of dead things in mud that accumulated over millions and millions of years. God says that there was no death of anything till 6,417 years ago.

Once again, false dichotomy. You are presenting a false dilemma between your religious worldview and no religious worldview at all. The existence of other religions shows that your "reasoning" is fallacious.

Evolution says the grand canyon came about over millions and millions of years, God' word teaches that it came about via a world wide flood. and the examples go on and one and on.

In addition to again appealing to your religion as the only possible religion, you are now employing a strawman on the side of evolution. Evolution says nothing whatsoever regarding the formation of the Grand Canyon.

Evolution says the grand canyon came about over millions and millions of years, God' word teaches that it came about via a world wide flood. and the examples go on and one and on.

You're just another arrogant creationist. Belive it or not, evolution is not all about you or your religion. It's not the fault of reality that observations within reality contradict your religious beliefs, and to label observations that contradict your religious beliefs as "promoting athiesm" is the height of arrogance. Believe it or not, there are non-atheists who don't believe exactly as you do.

[Thatcherite]

...why the flood and global do-over?

Apparently the purpose was to eradicate evil. Well, that really worked didn't it.

[Thatcherite]

insulant" bull

Rendered cattle used as cavity-wall-insulation? Now that is sick.

[Dimensio]

Stalin and Hitler certainly believed it espoused atheism

Well, who could argue with two gifted biologists like those two?

And the most famous neodarwinists also believe it - Gould, Sagan, Crick, all of the Huxleys, Dawkins (blind watchmaker) and many many others.

Please. The only one of that group who argues that evolution implies a godless universe is Dawkins, and I've pointed out in the past how he talks out of his ass when trying to make that conclusion.

Since the most renowned gatekeepers of evolution espouse a godless universe and godless origins, it cannot be denied that evolutionary theory breeds such a connection.

Odd how you can't actually use the theory itself to make the logical connection, you can only point to people who accepted evolution who happened to be atheists. Well, it's not that odd. There really is no logical means of deducing "no gods exist" from the theory of evolution, so it's not surprising that you have to use a dishonest argument tactic to support your claims.

[Thatcherite]

Evolution says the grand canyon came about over millions and millions of years, God' word teaches that it came about via a world wide flood. and the examples go on and one and on.

I missed the Bible passage that says that the Grand Canyon was formed in the Flood. Perhaps you can point it out to me, or perhaps you are just made it up?

[Dimensio]

So, you can observe, prove and test the theory of evolution?

Observe and test, yes. However absolutely no theory in science is ever proven.

[ReignOfError]

Now, I have had enough of your insulant bull.

If you're going to mount the high horse, learn how to spell insolent first. Then try looking it up. Insolence is the failure to show the deference due to one's superiors; if you fancy yourself in that position, the issue isn't my insolence, but your hubris.

Let’s get something straight, those of us who believe that God created all things in six days are saying He did it right the first time. You who believe in evolution say He needed millions of millions of years and that things where not right to start, as He had made them so they need to evolve.

You have the sheer hubris to believe that you know the mind of God a priori. The rest of us seek to know God by observing his creation. The powers of observation and reason are part of His creation at least as surely as that little book you so cherish.

And evolution does not imply that God got something wrong; creation was right then, and it's right now. It's just not the same now as then. If I build a clock, and it doesn't say at this moment that it's noon, there's nothing wrong with the clock. It will say it's noon when it's noon.

The problem is that your fragile little ego can't handle the possibility that God knows something you don't, so you have to reduce the ongoing miracle of creation to something you can write in crayon on the back of a Denny's place mat.

God created evolution and quasars and quantum mechanics, with no more effort than you or I would exert to make a cup of tea and a slice of toast for breakfast. You will not and cannot understand the mind of God, because the infinite cannot be contained by the finite. It's like trying to squeeze Jupiter into the trunk of a Pinto.

It is you pious, self-righteous zealots who most gravely insult the Almighty -- you delude yourself that you are His gatekeeper, that your squawkings are His will. You know nothing, least of all that you know nothing. You have neither wisdom nor humility. If you find that insolent, so be it.

[ReignOfError]

The worst blasphemy is believing that the handiwork of god is defective or tainted.

Right answer, wrong question. God's work is by definition perfect. If we consider strokes or heart attacks or childhood cancer "defects" or "taints" it is not because they are unplanned; it is because they are part of a plan we do not and cannot see.

The world is full of people who pray for the winning lottery numbers, or the next rent payment, or even the next meal. But if you truly believe that an all-seeing, wholly benevolent god is holding the reins of the universe, that his eye is on the sparrow and nothing happens but according to his plan, there is only one prayer that is appropriate:

Thy will be done.

That's it. Beginning, middle and end.

[spunkets]

It's a display of one of their std techniques. They claim anything, back it up in the most illogical way, ignore any correction, come back later, and repeat the same rubbish as if it was never said and corrected before.

[Coyoteman]

6,417 years ago the first animal died, probaly a sheep, God killed an animal or two so as to make clothes for Adam and Eve and to establish the need for blood in sacrifice for the atoning of sins.

I have radiocarbon dates on shellfish older, or much older, than 6,417 years ago.

How do you account for these?

[Coyoteman]

6,417 years ago the first animal died, probaly a sheep, God killed an animal or two so as to make clothes for Adam and Eve and to establish the need for blood in sacrifice for the atoning of sins.

I have radiocarbon dates on shellfish older, or much older, than 6,417 years ago.

How do you account for these?

[Coyoteman]

Sorry for the double post. It was over a minute later!

[Coyoteman]

On the crevo threads we have a couple from Great Britain and at least one from Sweden.

And at least one from Israel.

[Coyoteman]

those of us who believe that God created all things in six days are saying He did it right the first time. You who believe in evolution say He needed millions of millions of years and that things where not right to start, as He had made them so they need[ed] to evolve.

Right, you finally got it! He started the ball rolling...