Even with head start, Houston had a problem

Waterbury Republican-American ^ | September 24, 2005 | Erin McClam (A.P.)

[Peach]

I'm certain that a lot of people DID work together. And there was a relatively small percentage of people who hurt other people, stole water from women, raped children, looted private homes.

And your Mayor and Governor tried to point fingers at the feds instead of pointing fingers at what was the worst leadership, if you can call it that, I've ever seen in my life.

On the Sunday before the hurricane struck, I told my husband I'd never seen such inept leadership in all my life.

You are the second person to tell me that Nagin is the best mayor New Orleans has ever had. I'm willing to believe that. And it makes the situation in New Orleans all the more sad. Because he's the worst I've ever seen.
Ever.

And as far as their pointing their fingers at the feds -- FEMA was in New Orleans on Wednesday. I watched the press conference where they announced they had to withdraw because they were being shot at.

And still the Governor did NOT ask for federal troops to quell the situation. How many people waiting for help that was delayed because the Governor is an idiot? An incalculable number.

[Peach]

I'd better run too; Mr. Peach will be patient with my bad mood and eventually joke me out of it!

[luckystarmom]

Galveston and the coastal areas. That was on the TV. That's probably Pasadena, Baytown, and other cities that are all part of the Houston/Galveston Metropolitan area. It's the third largest metropolitan area in the country. Only LA and New York are larger.

[Lady Jag]

[meyer]

Over the lake? No way!

chicken! Are you an iron man or an iron mouse?

[IronMan04]

Chicago is bigger.

[IronMan04]

Looks like the Democratic Mayors of Houston and Galveston were able to round up some school buses.

[luckystarmom]

I don't think it is anymore.

[Lady Jag]

Democratic Mayors of Houston and Galveston were able to round up some school buses.

Not only that, IronMan04, Shep is on FOX live at the moment and was an hour or two ago before it got dark in downtown Beaumont, TX. Most business had lost their windows and some facades collapsed and there had been no looting! He walked in and out of stores and businesses, and valuable property sat out in open, untouched.

[af_vet_rr]

So you had information that the people of New Orleans did not have before Katrina?

Yes, don't live below sea level when your surrounded by water on three sides.

Sarcasm aside, Katrina reinforced the fact that our judgement is just as good or better than any mayor, governor, senator, president, whoever, if we have the same information as they do.

In some cases my judgement, your judgement, the guy next door's judgement is going to be better than any government official's, for the simple fact that we don't have to look at the big picture - if we evacuate our family members prematurely and it turns out there is no threat, we aren't going to have to start worrying about our next election.

Too many people relied on the government from the city on up to the federal to protect them before and after Katrina, and look where they ended up.

[af_vet_rr]

Which highways did you use to evacuate from Corpus Christi. If I had needed to I was trying to choose between I-37 with three outbound lanes, US181 from CC to Karnes City then Texas 123 to San Marcos then I-35 to Austin, or FM136 from Gregory to Refugio, then Texas 183 all the way to Austin.

Avoid I-37 at all costs. Look at this area (Google Maps - you can left-click on the map and while holding down your left button, you can literally drag the map around) - you have several options - depending on where you're at in Corpus, you can head to Orange Grove, Alice, or even Kingsville, and then over to Freer and then north to the San Antonio area, or over to 35 and then to San Antonio, but I-35 can get very busy with just its normal traffic. There are smaller back roads if needed (you really need a good map/atlast), and you could even catch 281 north out of Alice, but it could be busy as well.

The nice thing about going west and then north, is your getting out of the main evacuation routes, and your options open up (not to mention your putting miles between you and the coast).

I wouldn't recommend taking any of the smaller roads to the east of Corpus because you have so many towns between Corpus and Houston that are within 50 miles of the coast that are going to evacuate that some choke points are going to happen, especially around Beeville where you face folks headed north or headed west to 37.

If you had to go towards Austin from Corpus, I would say avoid Kenedy and Cuero if possible, because they would probably be major evacuation points because of 77 and 181. I would almost say head for Yorktown using your best judgement at the time (based on the traffic your seeing) and then upto Smiley or Nixon and then upto Luling. Your going to hit traffic, but if you avoid the straightest line (which is what most people will take), you could actually make better time, and your chances of finding gas if needed would improve (hopefully you wouldn't need it and would have been driving with the A/C off if possible).

The main thing with the smaller roads, is that you can change routes a lot easier if needed, and your not screwed if a bunch of people 75 miles in front of you run out of gas or have a serious accident. Some of the estimates with I-45 were 100+ miles of gridlock (which is to be expected, considering I-45 was never meant to handle that much traffic at once).

[Mila]

"Somewhere between 80% and 90% of New Orleans evacuated before Katrina hit. I call that a successful evacuation."

So do I.

[meyer]

"Somewhere between 80% and 90% of New Orleans evacuated before Katrina hit. I call that a successful evacuation."

IN hindsight, in both situations, people took it upon themselves to evacuate based on the forecast available. I'd be willing to bet that more than half the New Orleans population was out of town before the mayor even mentioned evacuation. Houston and Galvaston called for Evac sooner, and so people probably hadn't gotten such a head start on the government as they had in NOLA.

The real difference was that the cities in Texas made arrangements and strong efforts to get those unable to get out a means to evacuate - that was not present in NOLA and represents the major difference between the two.

IMHO, both situations show inadequate road infrastructure to be able to move such large populations and their personal effects out of a city in a timely fashion. We either need more roads, or lower population density.

[weegee]

From Houston, the main roads out of town -- Interstate 10 to San Antonio, I-45 to Dallas, and U.S. Highway 290 to Austin -- were turned into one-way thoroughfares only Thursday, and even then the one-way flow began well outside Houston.

290 WAS NOT turned into a one-way thoroughfare.

That plan was announced at 8am but 9 hours later they balked on the decision. They said that it was problematic (the traffic turn in Brenham) and that they wanted to keep the inbound to Houston side open for supplies (which from what I saw was nothing but buses, Houston STILL has a gas shortage nearly a week later).

And they left hundreds of buses in Cy Fair to send buses down from Austin.

The sheer longest part of the journey was just getting out of Houston. That took 12 hours.

Millions saw Mayor White fumble the ball.

[weegee]

And Hempstead closed their town to the travellers (and horded what gas they had).

The sheriffs blocked the entrances to their small town.

That can't be legal.

Someone's job should be lost over that "emergency" act of isolationism.

[BigSkyFreeper]

It took people longer to get from Houston to Austin for the Rita evacuation that it look me to get from New Orleans to Austin.

2.5 million people evacuated Houston, and in record time, even though Houston was spared the full brunt of the hurricane. The bottomline is, the mayor of Houston issued the mandatory evacuation order at the right time, and the good people of Houston heeded the warning when it was issued.

Blanco and Nagin, given a second chance to redeem their stupidity, failed yet again, because they were purely driven by sheer emotion, while the public officials in Texas were calm, cool, and collected in the face of incoming danger.

[IronMan04]

Why is it that my family, friends and I were able to get out of New Orleans without waiting for a Representative from the Nanny State to order a Mandatory Evacuation?

BTW-On Saturday morning before Katrina hit Mayor Nagin Pleaded for everyone to get out. He Said "This is the storm we have feared all of our lives. Do whatever you can do to get out NOW!

[BigSkyFreeper]

Why is it that my family, friends and I were able to get out of New Orleans without waiting for a Representative from the Nanny State to order a Mandatory Evacuation?

Right. I asked that question a month ago. I further went on to say that it's a sad state of affairs waiting for some schmuck mayor and dingbat governor to bark out orders when there's a ferocious Cat 5 hurricane ready to reak havoc from 600 miles away.

[BigSkyFreeper]

BTW-On Saturday morning before Katrina hit Mayor Nagin Pleaded for everyone to get out. He Said "This is the storm we have feared all of our lives. Do whatever you can do to get out NOW!

Makes absolutely no sense to execute the evacuation order when the hurricane made landfall. One month ago today (8/27 - Saturday) was when Katrina made landfall. Texas officials gave everyone 72 hours advanced notice.

Michael Brown was right when he said today in front of the Senate Committee investigation that if anyone was slow to respond, it was the local officials. Brown got sh!tcanned because some doofus mayor and dingbat governor couldn't do their jobs right.

[IronMan04]

Makes absolutely no sense to execute the evacuation order when the hurricane made landfall. One month ago today (8/27 - Saturday) was when Katrina made landfall. Texas officials gave everyone 72 hours advanced notice.

I am not sure how many hurricanes you have experienced in Montana by living all of my life in Texas and Lousiana I have been through quite a few with very infamous names.

Now, for your time line. Katrina made landfall on the morning of Monday, August 29th not August 27th as you stipulate.

Seventy-two hours advance notice would have been nice for the people of New Orleans but 72 hours prior to Katrina hitting the MGC and New Orleans the storm was a CAT 1 just entering the Gulf of Mexico.

Perhaps you should check your facts before posting.