The New GOP Betrays America

Newsmax ^ | Thursday, Aug. 11, 2005 | Diane Alden

[fallujah-nuker]

"I think that Israel's nuclear brinkmanship was an evil gambit...if true...and I just don't believe it...Nixon made it clear he was willing to resupply the IDF...Nixon saved Israel."

It was no bluff, they would have done it. They would have had nothing to lose. There is nothing evil about nuclear weapons, the save the lives of several hundred thousand of our guys in WW2. Nixon saved Israel from having to nuke their foes. One Israel phrased it this way, "The Arabs may have the oil, but we have the matches."

My dad flew airlift missions to Israel at the time, he saw the situation first hand. The only way they could have survived without our help would have been using nuclear weapons.

[fallujah-nuker]

In 1994 speaking on the WTO Newt Gingrich stated "we need to be honest about the fact that we are transferring from the United States, at a practical level, significant authority to a new organization. This is a transformational moment. I would feel better if the people who favor this would just be honest about the scale of change."

[neutronsgalore]

"It was no bluff, they would have done it. They would have had nothing to lose. There is nothing evil about nuclear weapons, the save the lives of several hundred thousand of our guys in WW2. Nixon saved Israel from having to nuke their foes. One Israel phrased it this way, "The Arabs may have the oil, but we have the matches."

My dad flew airlift missions to Israel at the time, he saw the situation first hand. The only way they could have survived without our help would have been using nuclear weapons."

Over the long run, Israel would've been better off had Nixon not prevented it from escalating nuclear. Just think, with all of the invading forces so close, the tac-nuke weapons would've wiped out most, if not all of the Palestinian population along with the invading forces and the strength of the Arab world would've been shattered beyond reckoning. After having already wiped out millions, there would've been no point in showing any additional restraint and the Israeli's could've then finished the job. I'm sure they were bluffing about the oilfields, they didn't have enough nukes to waste on them, more worthwhile to vaporize Arabs. Then they could've seized the oilfields for themselves and the world would be better off having supertankers flying the Star of David.

[fallujah-nuker]

"Then they could've seized the oilfields for themselves and the world would be better off having supertankers flying the Star of David."

Israel would require no aid, and they could have run pipelines from the Persian Gulf to the Mediterranean.

[Bushbacker]

It was no bluff, they would have done it. They would have had nothing to lose.

_____What is your source for this?



There is nothing evil about nuclear weapons, the save the lives of several hundred thousand of our guys in WW2.

____Triggering off a worldwide nuclear war would have been evil when there were conventional options available.



Nixon saved Israel from having to nuke their foes.

___I simply do not believe that Nixon aided Israel out of fear that it would resort to nukes.




One Israel phrased it this way, "The Arabs may have the oil, but we have the matches."

____Very funny...



My dad flew airlift missions to Israel at the time, he saw the situation first hand. The only way they could have survived without our help would have been using nuclear weapons.

_____Nixon, just as a matter of Cold War politics, would have prevented an Arab victory.

[Bushbacker]

Just think, with all of the invading forces so close, the tac-nuke weapons would've wiped out most, if not all of the Palestinian population along with the invading forces and the strength of the Arab world would've been shattered beyond reckoning.

____Yeah, just think....

[Mase]

Which is always the case with party lapdogs

I guess I wasn't clear enough for you. Let me try again.

Rest assured though, the wacko John Bircher type extremist fringe element will always be to the right of me.

Hope that helps.

[fallujah-nuker]

"What is your source for this?"

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/israel/doctrine.htm

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/cpc-pubs/farr.htm

http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Israel/Isrhist.html

"Triggering off a worldwide nuclear war would have been evil when there were conventional options available"

They were running out of munitions, their back was against the wall. They did not have the means on their own to win the war, without resupply their choices were accept defeat or go nuclear, they had nothing to lose. It would be evil to allow your people to be wiped out. Eisenhower relied on nuclear weapons as part of his "New Look" military in 1953, he had no intention of matching the USSR tank for tank and draining us economically. Ike was not evil, and was a far better president than Bush 41 or 43.

"I simply do not believe that Nixon aided Israel out of fear that it would resort to nukes."

Read the URL's, this is no big secret!

"Nixon, just as a matter of Cold War politics, would have prevented an Arab victory."

He ended up having to prevent an overwhelming Israeli victory too, the IDF was in a position to take Damascus at the end of the war, and Sharon had 2 Egyptian armies cut off on the east bank of the Suez Canal. The best source on this war is a book titled "Yom Kippur War," part of the Ballantine history of the violent century.

[Bushbacker]

YYpour citations do not prove that the US's decision to aid Israel was triggered by a fear of Israeli use of nuclear weapons...."the extent to which Israel's nuclear alert affected the timing of Washington's subsequent decision to rearm Israel is not clear."


You're simply attempting to back up your premise that the US is not a tustworthy ally of Israel and that Nixon aided the IDF only to
prevent nuclear war. Otherwise, he would have allowed Israel to go down the drain? Is that your view?

Finally, the US did indeed stop Istael from going as far as they wanted to go...we do intend to inflence events in our own interest, even though we also back out allies...the fall of Egypt to Israeli forces would have triggered a US/Soviet confrontation and that we could not allow.

[Pelham]

No thanks. It comes naturally to you.

[Pelham]

What's clear is you live in your imagination.

[neutronsgalore]

"Yeah, just think...."

Hmmm...I don't get the feeling you're convinced. You're not worried that it would've been an immoral thing for them to have done are you? Heck, they're all destined to hell anyway so they would've just been sending them there sooner. Just think of it, by Israel blowing them away they would've prevented millions of future souls from ending up condemned to eternal flames by being born under the crescent instead of the crucifix or Star of David. I can't think of anything more compassionate than saving souls...

[fallujah-nuker]

"You're simply attempting to back up your premise that the US is not a tustworthy ally of Israel and that Nixon aided the IDF only to prevent nuclear war. Otherwise, he would have allowed Israel to go down the drain? Is that your view?"

Nope, the US has been a good ally to Israel, in 1973 we took F-4's from USAF fighter squadrons in Europe and sent them to Israel. What really lit a fire under Nixon, distracted by Watergate, was the credible threat to use nuclear weapons to resolve a deteriorating tactical situation.

Only time will tell if the US remains a good ally to Israel. We have allowed millions of Moslem's into America, we are importing antisemitism by our open borders. In addition on the college campuses today the Palestinians have become a cause celebre, which is why we get people like Rachel Corrie. Israel is an outpost of the West in a sea of barbarians, the "Hey hey, ho ho, Western civilization has got to go" crowd would love to see her downfall.

Israel had no intention of marching on Cairo, but she was not keen on allowing the Egyptian armies trapped by Sharon east of Suez to escape. There was a confrontation with the USSR anyway, we went to DefCon III.

[fallujah-nuker]

"...I can't think of anything more compassionate than saving souls..."

A compassionate conservative! LOL

[Bushbacker]

Heck, they're all destined to hell anyway so they would've just been sending them there.

___Nothing like a little anti-Christian bigotry, eh, when alll else fails?

[Bushbacker]

What really lit a fire under Nixon, distracted by Watergate, was the credible threat to use nuclear weapons to resolve a deteriorating tactical situation

--___Haven't show me any credible proof of this assertion.

[fallujah-nuker]

I think were beating a dead horse here, I will not convince you that Israel was ready to go nuclear, nor shall you convince me they were not. Sleep tight.

[Bushbacker]

I will not convince you that Israel was ready to go nuclear, nor shall you convince me they were not.

+___That's not the issue here...I think Israel might have been ready to go nuclear but you have no evidence that Nixon aided Israel solely to prevent that---and otherwise might have done nothing and let Israel be defeated,

[mastergibs]

Again, Savage Mentioned Again. You have lost your mind when you quote that fella. If he was not Jewish I would think he came off the Third Reich Ship that went astray on its Voyage to Argentina in the 40's. I can not fathom anyone giving him one moment of credibility. Immigrants do come in mass across a very long and porous border. Some are not assimilating, some are criminals, but most are good Catholic Christians with some moral values. How does that really effect our country in a negative way. Are we frightend that the Hollywood left will become too diluted to be an effective foil to rally against. The Irish, The Pols who flooded into the country were vilified, Now its Mexican-o's fleeing from a corrupt and putrid government that rewards only its own aristocracy while ignoring the conditions of the vast majority of its own citizens. We are conservatives who are supposed to believe in representative government and democracy for all people.We are supposed to believe that liberty above all else is the sacred mantle. Not security, not vast material wealth, not in the vanity of our own standing as privileged folks. We have come to ignore our own history. Look around the world, those who engage in fair and free trade are rewarded by economic prosperity, those Like France and Germany who choose to play protectionist gains, have 30 hour work weeks and scoff at the notion that people have to work to actually make it are drowning in a sea of joblessness and unemployment. Look at the GDP's of western euro nations. Many, most are in far worse shape debt wise than the U.S. Please I implore you to quit acting like a sky is falling leftist and rethink your infatuation with Michael Weiner (Savage). Education and degrees hanging on wall (Savage's claim to having a degree in nearly everything) do not indicate the real IQ of a man.
I enjoy his rants on the Islamo fascist, but I become so ashamed of the rest of his crap that I dare tell no one that I would even allow his voice to come thru my speakers. I don't agree with him on any thing else. He is delusional and bitter. He is angry because pioneers in talk and entertainment radio are kicking his butt in the ratings. He is angry that he has no effect on the body politic (thank god), he acts like a victim. He talks like a victim. He is what I envision it must have been like for the Nazi propaganda machine in WWII. He is the new Clan.
You tell me if you would have the fortitude and guts to say in a public setting the very things that spew from Savage's mouth. Do you think a single living soul could get elected to office in this country if they took his platform and incoherent rants and ventured across the country?
Please, Please quit quoting this quack. He is a nobody. He could not carry GW's lunch sack, he couldn't even carry Ted Kennedy's for goodness sake.
The most telling thing about Savage is his elitist attitude towards the President. He thinks the presedent is stupid, he thinks he cant make a coherant sentence. I think Savage and Michale Moore have more in common than he would like to admit. If you think our President is a stupid man and agree with Savage than have the Guts to call him stupid here at FR. Dont hide any longer behind the rantings of Savage's skirt.

[The Foolkiller]

???? Who's hiding behind anybody? I don't agree with everything Savage says. But he makes sense sometimes. I don't agree with everything Limbaugh says, either. Yeah....funny you should mention the Jews, the Irish, the Polish...and don't forget the Chinese back in the day...seems they all had something in common, though. 1). Yes-they were all vilified at one time (and still are by some). 2). THEY CAME HERE LEGALLY!!!!! And, I'm sorry I don't follow GWB blindly, just because he's got an R in front of his name. He, the Repubs, AND the Dems are allowing OPEN BORDERS, in a time of terrorism,. just to kiss a$$ with Hispanics, so they don't piss them off. GOTTA HAVE THOSE VOTES, YA KNOW!! If that makes me a Bush-hater in your eyes, so be it!