Posted on 07/20/2005 4:28:34 AM PDT by SFC MAC
Well, maybe here--> When was the last major daily you heard of having to deal with a strike?
A most interesting observation! The paper/network/party of the working man; cajoling/leading the unwashed on to their workers paradise. How appropriate.
Is there a connection with the "labor rest" at these Liberal-Socialist shit-holes & purveyors of garbage, the proverbial Faustian Deal, perhaps?
You didn't come right out and say so, but of the labor strikes that hit the newspapers, do you think they were mostly limited to the conservative(for purposes of this discussion), dailies??? It would seem to follow. Add another contributing factor to the list?
"Democratic Party" *is* the same as "The Left", that's a silly statement.
Not necessarily, the Dims have not always been lesfists. Fact is, the parties have sortof flip flopped, along with the labels, and not so long ago. Remember, the Dims have "moved on" from a very conservative South, where they once reigned supreme.
Forget the *whys* behinds the two rags, find out WTF took over the Democratic Party, eliminate 'em & the rags will swing in whatever direction the new *head* looks.
I believe the whys behind the two rags(and most other major dailies) is critical to understanding our predicament. We're being bludgeoned daily by socialist dogma for no apparent reason? Do you believe if the Dims were to make a move to the right, the media would follow? Maybe if you expand on your thought.
"Well, my assumption is that both parties had their own media cheerleaders(at least early on)..."
No "assuming" necessary here, they still do.
How accurate would that statement have been 30, 20, or even 10 years ago? You'll agree the "progressives" had obtained a stranglehold on most, if not all, the major media outlets' effluent that lasted until very recently? What is of interest of course is the genesis of that stranglehold.
I clearly remember it was the "Republicans" who dominated the MSM, and I ain't that old.
Noted; see flip flops above ;^)
Not quite, the MSM rags "played the room" and that meant pursued selling their pap to the unwashed *masses* within the overgrowing major metropolitan areas around the nation.
You've touched upon another one of my theories, that is, print/programming is aimed at the most susceptible audience, not necessarily the most affluent, although there is some overlap. Those that read/watch this insufferable pap are the most likely to be influenced by the drummer's wares? The media just provides the marks?
First off the entire notion of "Liberal" v.s. "Conservative didn't exist in the 50s.
Maybe not with the attached labels, but there have been competing idealogies with their attendant media hypsters, as you stated, since the beginning. Federalist vs Anti Federalist were competing broad brush idealogies that have survived, in one fashion or another, for a couple hundred years in this country. The same, or similar, idealogies have probably been around for millennia. The only thing that changes is the label?
Wondering *why* the Liberal-Socialist quislings in the media play to a room filled with that ilk kind sheds light on the whole shittin' caboodle to me.
Kinda speaks to the good vs evil argument again. The fact that this whole shittin' caboodle is like-minded in their desire to kick God out of the country tells me a lot about 'em also.
The "conservative" rags are as corrupt as the other side..
Well for starters, you'll have to point out a couple to me; I'll go from there. Unless you're referring to the early days when the competing rags were probably hyprebole personified.
Well, it's back to the garden with my raggedy butt & the relative sanity. ...of *weeds*. ;^)
heh, heh. My garden is in 5 gallon buckets, and has been for a couple of years. How weeds can get started in a 5 gallon bucket is a mystery to me.
FGS
Bottom line though, does it shed any light on the great questions of our time???
;^)
I agree. Originally, I put the wire services at the bottom because they don't have their own outlets and depend on other media to run their stories. But since they feed stories to Big Media outlets it seems logical to place then higher up the food chain.
How the issue of their ownership by several Big Media companies affects their placement on the food chain is another question, which I'm not sure how to answer yet.
ForGod'sSake writes: "Bottom line though, does it shed any light on the great questions of our time?"
Yes, because we are at war with the MSM, and, to wage a successful war, we must learn the disposition of enemy forces.
Mapping the command structure of the MSM will tell us who is really in charge of it.
I'm not sure where the newsweeklies fit into the pyramid. They are extremely influential in shaping elite opinion, but their weekly frequency puts them at a disadvantage to any medium with a daily frequency. I think I'll bump them down below the broadcast networks. Let's see how that works.
Excellent! Should be read by all new FReepers.
The entire article is long, but an extremely good read.
Famous names in the media use FR as a resource, though they are loath to admit it. Politicians and their aides are constantly here also. I can't prove it, but many of the "off the books" readers have modified their behavior after reading FR. That is a huge satisfaction.
Thanks, Jim. Thanks, fellow Freepers. Way to go!
Fantastic. I'm so proud.
Awesome article! And of course, Jim is the man!
HA!!
A genuine conundrum, I believe.
Sorry. {g}
"Well, maybe here--> When was the last major daily you heard of having to deal with a strike? A most interesting observation! The paper/network/party of the working man; cajoling/leading the unwashed on to their workers paradise. How appropriate."
Something like *that*. ;^)
We are after all looking for links tieing these once *separate* factions, together.
What exactly it is binding them, the common thread explaining why it is they're consistently on "the same page", as it were/is, is the $64 question.
>Is there a connection with the "labor rest" at these Liberal-Socialist shit-holes & purveyors of garbage, the proverbial Faustian Deal, perhaps?
"You didn't come right out and say so, but of the labor strikes that hit the newspapers, do you think they were mostly limited to the conservative(for purposes of this discussion), dailies???"
One would have to do research on that theory, my friend.
I've neither the time or inclination at this moment myself, neither am I a "historian".
Anything I say is from the gut based *solely* on my personal memory of the times in which I've lived.
The absence of labor unrest -- of any kind in the media industry -- is real, albeit subtle.
And methinks there're good *reason(s)* for such abject subtlety in this day & age of phony, contrived lamestream sensationalism.
Reason(s) that if discovered would reveal a lot more than meets the eye.
Still all this conjecture needs *proof*, doesn't it?
"It would seem to follow. Add another contributing factor to the list?"
Little if anything's as it seems, anymore.
Nonetheless add 'er to the list, what the hell. {g}
>"Democratic Party" *is* the same as "The Left", that's a silly statement.
"Not necessarily, the Dims have not always been lesfists."
The Democrats were *of* the left -- side of the isle -- but not "leftist" as in "Socialist", "Communist" or at least what's become the loony left today when one factors 'em out, anyway.
The "Democrats" of my day never for an instant let it be said they weren't Americans first, and that's one of the glaring differences between then, and now.
Another clue as to what we're not being told?
Perhaps.
"Fact is, the parties have sortof flip flopped, along with the labels, and not so long ago."
Now *there's* a truism if ever there were.
Of course one would have to define the flipflop stands of the two before I'd fully agree, for at this point I'll not 'assume" anything, any longer.
"Remember, the Dims have "moved on" from a very conservative South, where they once reigned supreme."
Yes, and *why* is that?
Had they *morphed*, abandoning their longstanding *relationship* with southerners?
Paradoxically most informed people understand the "Democrats" of the south were so strong [there] because of what A.Lincoln & his war of aggression did to decimate their region & its way of life.
The Democrats enjoyed great strength in the south for a very long time by becoming the vehicle into which the south's hatred & contempt for the north could be carried, justified, have a "place at the political table" of the union.
Not arguing right or wrong in that, just stating what it was "binding" the south to the 'Rats, and, why it was necessary to pitch an entire region's constituency under the bus.
It was necessary, IF, they were to assume any kind of a "moral high ground" their mediots could trumpet.
Next thing y'know the party of A.Lincoln and the Civil Rights Act become the "racists" and the racists the champions of the downtrodden.
And the nation went along with the charade hook, line & sinker.
Nuts, no?
-------------------
Interestingly enough as an aside [read: off-point :o)] I now live *near* a little piss-ant town here in Wisconsin, a college town called, "Ripon, Wisconsin".
Their claim to fame?
Why Ripon's the "birthplace" of the Republican Party, don'tcha know.
Moreover just down the road from Ripon is another slightly larger burg called, "Appleton, Wisconsin" and politically their claim to fame is the "birthplace" of the "John Birch Society".
oh could I tell you stories of the JBS from when I was a kid, being I was from a "labor" family? ;^)
Reason I mentioned these two interesting facts is because this is an *unbelievably* "conservative" part of the nation, FGS.
Yet Wisconsin consistently elects Liberal-Socialists to Gov, our 2 senators sending the worst of all possible critters to represent 'em?
Of course as with anywhere there're isolated areas the exception, but the "red v.s blue" is really pronounced up here, and then further compounded by ultra-right idealists who vote for ultra-leftists.
I jump in the ol' 'Vette for a drive through the beautiful countryside up here & on my travels I've [repeatedly] observed Gadsden Flags flying over small farms dotting the landscape.
Fiercely independent people, Wisconsinites.
Peoples who jealously guard what's theirs and don't appear to be in the least intimidated by today's PC culture, *broadcasting* their sentiments for all to see atop their flagpoles.
At least those living out in the county, anyway.
Curious.
I digressed...back on-topic.
-------------------
>Forget the *whys* behinds the two rags, find out WTF took over the Democratic Party, eliminate 'em & the rags will swing in whatever direction the new *head* looks.
"I believe the whys behind the two rags(and most other major dailies) is critical to understanding our predicament."
Somewhat.
But first lemme submit methinks you/we're looking at a *symptom* of the Liberal-Socialist's presence in the United States today & really not much more.
Those two disgusting rags prove that much.
The Slime & Compost are what they are.
It'd take a historian to say when & how much they've switched *polarity*, if a'tall.
Just as Col McCormick's once rabidly right-wing [read: Republican as-in, "Republic"] Chicago Tribune morphed into it's ideological opposite -- and some say before the old man was dropped into his grave & had a chance to cool -- changed?
That same juxtaposition's happened around the nation, and not just with print media, I cannot believe what's become of the Milwaukee television stations.
Those *things* are much worse than the Milwaukee Urinal for their PC Liberal-Socialist propaganda, and for a guy who grew up here it's a shame to see.
Still, they too are merely playing the room to sell Tide and to hell with the wellbeing of the nation.
"We're being bludgeoned daily by socialist dogma for no apparent reason?"
*No* apparent reason??
My friend, "they" the Liberal-Socialists (~& we cannot debate that, can we?) want to *lead* the nation, someplace.
Therein lies the *rub*.
An increasing number of citizens apparently sense the place "they'd" like taking us [to] will spell our doom, be the end of "freedom(s)" as we've known 'em ending a dream millions of people died to provide each & every American citizen, however idealistic said dream was in light of human nature, history.
At least that's how I see it, FWIW; moreover, seems to me most of the "bludgeoning" is done on the "boomers" who're too stupid to see their getting the crap kicked outa 'em.
~sigh~
"Do you believe if the Dims were to make a move to the right, the media would follow? Maybe if you expand on your thought."
Maybe.
There's no denying the two enjoy a fully symbiotic relationship, each depending on the other for their very survival.
Sure would *love* to see the goings on behind the scenes -- in the proverbial smoky back room -- that'd set the stage for such a move, though.
Sure would.
Still the idea's not as far fetched as it sounds, either.
Even thought of such a scenario several times, myself.
The only real chance America's left has to finally put a "lock" of their Utopian socialistic dream(s) for the nation would be for them to *hijack* the right -- & overeating the right stands for -- and make it theirs.
They did just *that* in the south, y'know.
From what I've witnessed [recently] it wouldn't be so hard for them to do, either.
Not given the gawd-awful, no, woeful stewardship the right's shown since gaining power?
All they'd need to do is begin touting "Pro 2nd" issues, throw the ever-decreasing in size unions under the bus & take up the "smaller is better" government position, promote individual responsibility in all facets of our citizen's lives & *voila'*!!
WTF would the "right" do then, huh.
Talk about how the party of "smaller government" has expanded the already bloated government bureaucracy? Further restricted "liberties" for our people, *&*, for their own sake? Or were "forced" to increase an already *sick* Medicaid system by providing an entitlement so big it boggles the mind?
Think about the strangeness of the defense and I think you'll see such a switch isn't just possible sometime in our lives, it's highly probable.
Such a drastic switch in ideological polarity isn't asking so much from the present powers-that-be on the left IF it meant in the end they'd capture the kind of power they've hungered for for a very long time, would it?
The 'ol "By any means necessary" and/or "Ends justify the means" shtick properly & strategically employed when needed & that'd be that.
The right -- would yet again -- find themselves flatfooted & squarely on their asses being on the defensive.
The *morph* sure would be a lot easier *if* the Liberal-Socialists got the quisling media's blessing on their little switcheroo scheme too, eh?
Think the Liberal-Socialists w/could get that blessing, my friend? :o)
"Well, my assumption is that both parties had their own media cheerleaders(at least early on)..."
>No "assuming" necessary here, they still do.
"How accurate would that statement have been 30, 20, or even 10 years ago?"
A hellova lot more accurate than it is today, that's for damned sure.
See?
Each side having their own "cheerleaders" isn't a bad thing.
*That's* precisely what was present 30, 20 and even 10 years ago that's not now, insofar as "newspapers" & the "news" being report goes, FGS.
We once had *choice*.
"You'll agree the "progressives" had obtained a stranglehold on most, if not all, the major media outlets' effluent that lasted until very recently?"
Uh-huh.
And as such have ya seen much in the way of *choice*, lately?
Y'know I just love it when the lovable fuzzball RLimbaugh goes on a tirade, & I paraphrase, "Miss the WA Compost? Doesn't matter, read the NYSlimes. Miss the NYSlimes? Doesn't matter, watch SeeBS..." etc.
The man nails it, perfectly.
They're *all* the same page whatwith their *beloved* -- & gettin' really old -- "Talking Points"?
Those talking points are what gives 'em away every time to all but the dimmest of wits, too.
Still there're a lot of dimwits (& unfortunately my Father-in-Law's one of 'em), aren't there?
"What is of interest of course is the genesis of that stranglehold."
Yea and that's where a good, honest & dedicated *historian* is needed now, more than ever.
Otherwise the Liberal-Socialists *will* rewrite history to suite -- & buttress -- their existence as sure as God made little green apples.
They've already begun the revision and we're *late* enough stopping 'em now, as-is.
>Not quite, the MSM rags "played the room" and that meant pursued selling their pap to the unwashed *masses* within the overgrowing major metropolitan areas around the nation.
"You've touched upon another one of my theories, that is, print/programming is aimed at the most susceptible audience, not necessarily the most affluent, although there is some overlap. Those that read/watch this insufferable pap are the most likely to be influenced by the drummer's wares? The media just provides the marks?"
Yea and the whole sordid affair smacks of an underlying attempt at massive social engineering at its worst, also.
It's as if "they're" -- Left *&* Right -- afraid of a race war -- or some other kind of catastrophic bullshit -- they feel they're compelled to stop, channel, manipulate.
When the truth is they're interfering with our evolution, an evolution which has -- up to now -- always proven the American people will 99% of the time do the "right" thing, whatever it be, if left to their own devises.
"They" don't trust the country, have assumed power to make all decisions for us, and I find that -- alone -- to be the most egregious of all their crimes, my friend.
Because insodoing they've stomped out, smothered all creativity, individuality, uniqueness which up to recently made America the envy of the entire planet.
Look what the assholes are trying to do with the races, for example.
*Blend* us all into one, *racially*??
Insanity.
There's something wonderful about German-Americans, French-Americans, Polish-Americans, Chinese-Americans, African-Americans...well, you get the idea.
All America's peoples bring something totally different to "the table", and it is that difference, individuality, strength they're threatening all in the name of "diversity"?
~oy vey.
For that alone, I damn them all* to hell.
>First off the entire notion of "Liberal" v.s. "Conservative didn't exist in the 50s.
"Maybe not with the attached labels, but there have been competing idealogies with their attendant media hypsters, as you stated, since the beginning. Federalist vs Anti Federalist were competing broad brush idealogies that have survived, in one fashion or another, for a couple hundred years in this country. The same, or similar, idealogies have probably been around for millennia. The only thing that changes is the label?"
Yup, I believe so.
And the best examples of this screwy kind of semantic tampering has to be "Democrat"="Liberal"(-Socialist)="Progressive" {spit} *&/or* "Republican"="Pro-Republic"="Conservative".
Orwell had much to write on what's happening to us and our language.
Our future's in the past, it'd appear.
>Wondering *why* the Liberal-Socialist quislings in the media play to a room filled with that ilk kind sheds light on the whole shittin' caboodle to me.
"Kinda speaks to the good vs evil argument again."
Think so?
I find the lines between "good" & "evil" to have been -- successfully -- blurred, even among my own kind.
I file it under "D", for "Depends Whose Ox Is Being Gored.
If that makes any sense?
"The fact that this whole shittin' caboodle is like-minded in their desire to kick God out of the country tells me a lot about 'em also."
Yes it does.
Marx, Lenin and I'll assume Mao all had a great deal to say about getting rid of [organized] religion and whatever deity is worshiped.
Can't have a deity if one's to get an entire globe to serve their *master(s)* here on mortal earth, can we?
>The "conservative" rags are as corrupt as the other side..
"Well for starters, you'll have to point out a couple to me; I'll go from there."
Sorry, no time.
My POV simply implies that as far as my "news source(s)" go all *I* want from said source are the who, what, where, when & whys of whatever's communicated to me.
I'll make up my own mind, thank you.
That said & to that end I cannot "trust" any of 'em.
Period.
"Unless you're referring to the early days when the competing rags were probably hyprebole personified."
No.
They're *all* as bad now as they've ever been, maybe worse.
The stakes today are their very survival, and they *themselves* cannot figure out how their fate's come to that!
Never has so much mud been slung & never has it been more irrelevant the mud have a kernel of truth in it, either.
They better do *something* if they're gonna be around much longer, right?
>Well, it's back to the garden with my raggedy butt & the relative sanity. ...of *weeds*. ;^)
"heh, heh. My garden is in 5 gallon buckets, and has been for a couple of years. How weeds can get started in a 5 gallon bucket is a mystery to me."
HA!!
It is, huh.
Well I'm "fluent" in "weedspeak" these days, so lemme talk to my weeds & ask 'em about that, OK?
...the weeds won't lie to me. ;^)
Indeed!
Mapping the command structure of the MSM will tell us who is really in charge of it.
Now that is a point worth pondering. Could it be the MSM is a loosely bound group of, uh, "insurgents" that don't really have a true command structure, but are held together by a common ideal? Sorta like al Queda et al???
For a long time I have held the notion that cutting off the head of the beast would render it impotent. I'm not so sure any more a head even exists. A "general" that passes down marching orders to the MSM troops. These troops are recruited because of their idealogy, not unlike al Queda's recruitment style, eh? An observant recruit can tell pretty quickly what it takes to get ahead within the organization. Witness the front men/women for the MSM. The most ambitious and clever spinners make it to the top of the MSM food chain?
BUT, if this scenario is more or less correct, would it add anything to the way we might approach the problem? Our(conservatives') basic plan for the last, say 10 years or so, has been to expose the leftist propaganda masquerading as news. You would probably agree the Media Research Center and others have encyclopedic volumes of evidence that support the propaganda charge. In any case, something seems to be working. Maintain patience and stay the course?
FGS
Odd, I'd been thinking about the same thing. They seem to be more in a support capacity; backup as it were. After due diligence and in-depth analysis allowed by their weekly status; arriving at the same conclusions as the dailies just adds weight to their positions? Werksferme.
FGS
You may be asking a deeper question than I actually read, BUT the glue that joins the MSM and the Dims at the hip is idealogy. Just like in the old days apparently, the MSM is carrying the water for their guys. The rub is that somewhere along the way the Dim waterboys threw off their partisan label and exchanged it for a fair and balanced label. They had an agreement after all. They broke it, nay, shattered it; nuked it even ;^)
Little if anything's as it seems, anymore.
Ah, but is it? Applying the KISS principle: Good vs evil? King Solomon was a pretty bright guy and it was his observation that there is/was nothing new under the sun. Whatever happens, has happened before; and unless we watch our step, will happen again.
Next thing y'know the party of A.Lincoln and the Civil Rights Act become the "racists" and the racists the champions of the downtrodden. And the nation went along with the charade hook, line & sinker. Nuts, no?
Oh, that's a bullseye! Truly nuts.
Reason I mentioned these two interesting facts is because this is an *unbelievably* "conservative" part of the nation, FGS. Yet Wisconsin consistently elects Liberal-Socialists to Gov..
WTH?!?! What's up witdat? Do they realize what they're doing.....or not?
The only real chance America's left has to finally put a "lock" of their Utopian socialistic dream(s) for the nation would be for them to *hijack* the right -- & overeating the right stands for -- and make it theirs.
I'll admit it; I've had the very same thoughts. Any move to the right would be based on principle of course.
...an evolution which has -- up to now -- always proven the American people will 99% of the time do the "right" thing, whatever it be, if left to their own devises.
Just so my friend. THAT presents a problem for the hammer and sickle bunch, but they have been laying the groundwork for decades; Gramsci would be proud.
"Well for starters, you'll have to point out a couple to me; I'll go from there."
Sorry, no time.
:-(
They're *all* as bad now as they've ever been, maybe worse.
OK; second attempt ;^) If you know of any conservative major daily or network.....please. FYI, I don't view FoxNews as a conservative network. They have way too many dirtbags on there spewing leftist drivel that at times is difficult to refute on short notice; as in a live broadcast. So, when a refutation is supplied, it's hours or days later when the original point is all but lost. But I digress. Talk radio? Has any of 'em ever claimed to be anything but conservative commentators? And the few conservative periodicals may as well have CONSERVATIVE stamped across their front page in bold red letters, such is their accepted position. Pointed out time and again by the.....MSM?
They better do *something* if they're gonna be around much longer, right?
I wish I knew how the few local/regional conservative operations were doing. I'd have an answer, but I don't.
Well I'm "fluent" in "weedspeak" these days, so lemme talk to my weeds & ask 'em about that, OK?
I'll go you one better; I'll have my weeds contact your weeds. Cut out the middle man ;^)
FGS
Excellent as always.
Aye, and there's the rub for the Lamestream Media dinosaurs...through the Internet, specifically, blogging, the average person has taken the reins from Old Media's withered, arthritic hands. FreeRepublic Rocks!
And so much more. Thanks, Jim, for being in the right place at the right time with the right vision. Part of it is happenstance and part of it is courage. Thanks for running with the ball.
See above.
THANKS.
WND is a good org, imho.
Lots of naysayers say otherwise when it crosses their preferences and sensibilities. But I still like it.
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