James Stockdale, Perot Running Mate, Dead at 81

AP ^ | AP-ES-07-05-05 2002EDT

[chariotdriver]

Yes the debate and judgment on how one endured POW confinement in Hanoi should be left to those that were there. The vast majority of the the other opinionators most likely would not have even survived the ordeal much less behaved well while there.

[Pukin Dog]

Let me be clear here. My problem with McCain's service is the fact that he never deserved selection to become a pilot. Better men, with better grades and behavior were passed over so that an Admiral's kid could have that slot.

In flight school, McCain did nothing to prove exceptional ability; in fact he wrecked a plane or two. When that happens, if one is even lucky enough to stay in the program, they DONT get a fighter, nor to they get an Attack jet like the A-4. Most don't get anything but a ticket home if they perform like McCain did.

So what I am saying, is that although he was an under-performer, he was put in a position of great responsibility. That should never happen. I cant say if a better pilot would have spotted the SAM that got him, but when people call him a 'War Hero' it bothers me, because there is nothing heroic about getting shot down.

What happened after that is between God and John McCain. Do I believe McCain's account of his POW service? No.

[rlmorel]

I think you are pretty clear on what you are saying, and I don't agree or disagree, because I really don't know myself.

I am genuinely curious, though-you sound like you have personal experience with his performance as a pilot, or are (were) a naval aviator yourself, because you sound pretty confident in your assessment of him.

Did you know McCain, or someone who flew with him?

[Pukin Dog]

I'm sorry, I thought you knew. I was a Naval Aviator, but not during McCain's era. I was also an Instructor, so I have a special animus for those who cant cut it, but get through anyway.

The World Famous Pukin Dogs of VF-143(the very best Tomcat squadron ever) were my last home in the Navy.

[SandRat]

050706-N-0000X-005 U.S. Navy File Photo: Formal portrait of Rear Adm. James B. Stockdale in full dress white uniform. He is one of the most highly decorated officers in the history of the Navy, wearing twenty six personal combat decorations, including two Distinguished Flying Crosses, three Distinguished Service Medals, two Purple Hearts, and four Silver Star medals in addition to the Medal of Honor. Later he obtained the rank of Vice Admiral, and is the only three star Admiral in the history of the Navy to wear both aviator wings and the Medal of Honor. U.S. Navy photo (RELEASED)

[chariotdriver]

The picture and his decorations say it all.

Chariot

[Xenalyte]

That was my very first thought! (Are we bad?)

[rlmorel]

Thanks for your service...I can certainly understand your animus towards those who can't cut it but got through anyway...hell, they probably do their best to kill YOU in the process!

And the Tomcat...gotta be the sexiest fighter aircraft ever built! Did you ever get to fly the D model? I saw one at an airshow last year, and that baby could move!!!

You guys who land those things at night have my respect. I used to watch them walking back to the Ready Room with their helmets off, hair matted down with sweat, sweat stains in the underarms, etc. I always figured it wasn't because it was all that HOT in there...

Anyway, I respect your opinion on his capability as a pilot, you would know better than most.

[Pukin Dog]

Don't thank me, it was a pleasure. I did fly the D a couple of times at airshows, but the Dogs flew the B. Night traps were fine if the weather was good, but when it was bad, thats we earned our money.

[Behind Liberal Lines]

Phil Hartman did an impression on SNL once to Dana Carvey's Perot.

That was the day that Dennis Miller became one of my heroes.

After that sketch, in which Hartman mocked Stockdale's hearing loss, etc., they cut to Miller's "Weekend Update" sketch.

Miller proceeded to break character, and lecture the audience about that the fact that Stockdale NEEDED a hearing aid because he had been brutally tortured as a POW in Vietnam, in large part because he refused to betray his country, that Stockdale was a real American hero, a patriot and certainly a better man than the people mocking him.

[Behind Liberal Lines]

Dennis Miller was critiquing the vice-presidential debates in 1993 and said that "the public crucifixion of [Ross Perot's running-mate General] James Stockdale was one of [his] lowest moments as an American citizen. ... He's a brilliant, sensitive, courageous man. And yet he committed the one unpardonable sin in our culture: he was bad on television."

[South40]

Don't know if it's been posted already but here is a great biography of the late Admiral Stockdale.

[TheOtherOne]

Thank you!

I must admit until recently, I was ignorant as to what he had done for our country. I am eager to learn all I can and honor him and his memory.

[South40]

It's an interesting read. The man did a lot for our country and his fellow prisoners at the Hanoi Hilton. He was unshakable.

Compare that to John Kerry who couldn't wait to get back home so he could stab his fellow servicemen in the back.

[PhilDragoo]

I have Jim and Sybil Stockdale, In Love and War, Naval Institute Press, 1990 (revised and updated from Harper & Row, 1984).

He presented an epic figure of heroism.

I was impressed by the determination and boldness of Perot's Iran mission as described in Ken Follett, On Wings of Eagles.

Perot's efforts on behalf of POWs have drawn the admiration of the Holzers.

McCain served as George Soros' Manchurian Candidate in ramming the attack on the First Amendment mislabeled campaign finance reform down our throats.

His betrayal of the MIAs as a colleague of the execrable John Kerry on the Senate subcommittee tasked with the subject is as black as character flaws get.

[merry10]

Were you a POW at the Hanoi Hilton?

[WoofDog123]

"Stockdale received 26 combat decorations, including the Medal of Honor, the nation's highest medal for valor, in 1976. A portion of his award citation reads: "Stockdale ... deliberately inflicted a near mortal wound to his person in order to convince his captors of his willingness to give up his life rather than capitulate. He was subsequently discovered and revived by the North Vietnamese who, convinced of his indomitable spirit, abated their employment of excessive harassment and torture of all prisoners of war."'

Are any more details of this event available?

[TheOtherOne]

There is some more information here:


http://www.medalofhonor.com/JamesStockdale.htm

[Lancey Howard]

May a great American rest in peace.